The “yes” vote in Australia

Whitewavemark2

maddyone

Very strange, we’re often told on here, and other forums, that immigration has been very beneficial to the UK. We’re told that immigration has brought skills, diversity, and wealth to the UK.
Why is immigration beneficial to the UK but not to Australia?
Double standards?

I’m sure if the immigrants were taking away your culture, your land, and your understanding of what makes you, you - we would be absolutely right in rejecting the immigrants as that would colonialism - but it isn’t it is immigration

Words used are important.

Exactly what I was going to say, plus the fact that a lot of the immigrants here are from countries that we colonised in the first place. We had a duty to allow them to come here.

In answer to previous questions raised….There are 8 senators and 3 members of the House of Representatives who identify as Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander so there is already some representation. I will be voting”No” purely on the basis that, despite the good intentions of the liberal left, I believe it is profoundly wrong to discriminate on the basis of race and we should not be changing the constitution to do this. We have the terrifying example of Nazi Germany to show us how this can be used negatively. All citizens should be regarded as equal in the constitution. If specific communities need additional economic and social assistance that is a different matter.

maddyone

Very strange, we’re often told on here, and other forums, that immigration has been very beneficial to the UK. We’re told that immigration has brought skills, diversity, and wealth to the UK.
Why is immigration beneficial to the UK but not to Australia?
Double standards?

I’m sure if the immigrants were taking away your culture, your land, and your understanding of what makes you, you - we would be absolutely right in rejecting the immigrants as that would colonialism - but it isn’t it is immigration

Words used are important.

Callistemon21

No-one has to integrate if they do not wish to Eloethan and many Aboriginal people still live their lives as they always have on their land. All children go to school, however. We can learn much from their ancient knowledge and culture, knowledge that has been lost in the rush to modern 'civilisation'.

However, many have embraced a more modern way of life, going to college and university, working, entering politics, becoming part of the extensive and diverse mix of peoples that make up Australia today,

But they can’t can they?

Their culture is the whole land of Australia - the colonists have taken it away - they have been left with nothing - which is why they are so disaffected.

My goodness giving them a voice is not a lot to ask, and yet those who have it all are not prepared to do so.

Very strange, we’re often told on here, and other forums, that immigration has been very beneficial to the UK. We’re told that immigration has brought skills, diversity, and wealth to the UK.
Why is immigration beneficial to the UK but not to Australia?
Double standards?

Take away hunter-gatherers' land, stick them in a little bit of the country with nothing to do as their old life style is no longer possible in a small space (compared to the whole country that used to be their's), introduce static housing and, worst of all alcohol to a people who have never had it before and yet some are surprised they don't INTEGRATE??? WHAT? They have been treated appallingly by past white settlers. Shame on anyone living in Australia who fails to recognise this. The past has gone, unfortunately for the first people and they cannot return, so more empowerment for coming generations is vital. It will cost more than money, but I hope those with the power will use it to try and stop the travesty from continuing.

Whether we like the fact or not, Australia's indigenous population was very badly treated by the British for centuries in the same way as many other idigenous populations were in other parts of what our ancestors, assuming that we are Europeans blithely called the "New World" and because our
ancestors regarded these people as savages, or at best, child-like simpeltons who had to be educated to their ways.

There is no point in blinking these unfortunate facts or trying to ignore that they may well be the chief reason why so many so-called indigenous populations have given up their fight for equality and have succumbed to alcoholism or drug-abuse, and as one poster put it, "just sit around drinking."

Obviously, any indigenous population should be represented in the parliament of their country. They may "have refused to be integrated" but on the other hand, why on earth should they wish to be integrated in a society that has treated them like dirt? Unless the majority in any country starts trying to treat minorities as equals, nothing will be achieved.

Colonization is a fact of life it’s not going to be reversed in Australia, the indigenous population is in exactly the same position as the North and South American indigenous populations and have learned to live alongside the majority, some have integrated, others continue with their traditions on the margins.

It’s never going to be fair because the majority will always make the rules, this vote is not going change anything quickly

No-one has to integrate if they do not wish to Eloethan and many Aboriginal people still live their lives as they always have on their land. All children go to school, however. We can learn much from their ancient knowledge and culture, knowledge that has been lost in the rush to modern 'civilisation'.

However, many have embraced a more modern way of life, going to college and university, working, entering politics, becoming part of the extensive and diverse mix of peoples that make up Australia today,

I am not Australian, have no connections with Australia and have never been there.

However, I have read quite a lot about the plight of the aboriginal population, and vividly remember a documentary by John Pilger which I found quite shocking and very sad.

The aboriginal population has been appallingly treated since the arrival of Europeans, and their culture has not been valued or respected. They have become strangers in their own country and, in many cases, dispossessed of what was once theirs.

I realise that now more progressive voices are now being heard and many changes have been made and hopefully this vote will bring even more change. But as for "integration", why were the natural inhabitants of a country meant to "integrate" with what was, in effect, a hostile invasion and occupation?

So all immigrants to other countries are colonists now

lyleLyle

nanna8

Don’t talk uninformed garbage. No one here is anti immigration because we are ALL immigrants. First generation migrants are close to 30 % of the population these days - vast majority now no longer of British descent. It is a lot harder for a Brit to get here than almost any others now, reverse of what it was.

Cry me a river

Are you Indigenous American lyleLyle?

lyleLyle

bluebird51

I usually don't post ,but I would like as an Australian to have a voice . We already have indigenous members in every state of Australia. My vote will be No. Please read Jacinta Nampijinpa Price, Australian Northern Territory Senator . She is of aboriginal descent, and is urging Australians to vote No. She says this is all about virtue signaling and won"t help aboriginal people at all. She has said that colonization has been good for her people. She cited they have food ,running water, housing .This is all funded by the Australian tax payer at 4.1 billion dollars this financial year. She also says we have the best democratic system in the world, and our labour government is going to make our country more divisive. Jacinta has had abuse, and death threats thrown her way. Yet the labour government can tell us to vote yes, without any repercussions. The houses that were given to the aboriginals are trashed, money spent on alcohol. What more can be done. as one poster said ,they are happy to live that way

I was waiting for the “one indigenous person I know said colonisers did us a favour by civilising us” speil. It never fails smdh

Not one single comment here with an adequate defense of refusing the only real natives’ a voice in a country forced upon their ancestors by violence. They are owed that voice. Period.

Jacinta Price are not just "one indigenous person" that the poster knows nor is Warren Mundine.

Jacinta Price is a Senator and Warren Mundine is a businessman, political strategist and advocate for an Aboriginal voice.
They do not not believe that this is the way forward.

Interesting that Noel Pearson who has always been a campaigner for Aboriginal rights is for the referendum.

And colonisers is appropriate and always will be. The past will not be whitewashed away just because it doesn’t always paint the “glorious empire” as some savior and civiliser. That fact is and remains that indigenous people are generationally far worse off post colonialism, by design. Can’t wash away the ugliness of that fact by shying away from terms that truthfully describe what happened. Whatever the majority of the indigenous want, they should have in this case. Waving around a few vocal minority opinions isn’t going wash away the stink of denying them more representation. It’s ugly as the history has been.

If you take away a persons culture - in this case totemism - you take away everything. That is why the indigenous people have had such difficulty since the colonisers arrived.

bluebird51

I usually don't post ,but I would like as an Australian to have a voice . We already have indigenous members in every state of Australia. My vote will be No. Please read Jacinta Nampijinpa Price, Australian Northern Territory Senator . She is of aboriginal descent, and is urging Australians to vote No. She says this is all about virtue signaling and won"t help aboriginal people at all. She has said that colonization has been good for her people. She cited they have food ,running water, housing .This is all funded by the Australian tax payer at 4.1 billion dollars this financial year. She also says we have the best democratic system in the world, and our labour government is going to make our country more divisive. Jacinta has had abuse, and death threats thrown her way. Yet the labour government can tell us to vote yes, without any repercussions. The houses that were given to the aboriginals are trashed, money spent on alcohol. What more can be done. as one poster said ,they are happy to live that way

I was waiting for the “one indigenous person I know said colonisers did us a favour by civilising us” speil. It never fails smdh

Not one single comment here with an adequate defense of refusing the only real natives’ a voice in a country forced upon their ancestors by violence. They are owed that voice. Period.

nanna8

Don’t talk uninformed garbage. No one here is anti immigration because we are ALL immigrants. First generation migrants are close to 30 % of the population these days - vast majority now no longer of British descent. It is a lot harder for a Brit to get here than almost any others now, reverse of what it was.

Cry me a river

There are so many different nationalities living in Australia from every corner of the world.

Yup. Colonisers

I usually don't post ,but I would like as an Australian to have a voice . We already have indigenous members in every state of Australia. My vote will be No. Please read Jacinta Nampijinpa Price, Australian Northern Territory Senator . She is of aboriginal descent, and is urging Australians to vote No. She says this is all about virtue signaling and won"t help aboriginal people at all. She has said that colonization has been good for her people. She cited they have food ,running water, housing .This is all funded by the Australian tax payer at 4.1 billion dollars this financial year. She also says we have the best democratic system in the world, and our labour government is going to make our country more divisive. Jacinta has had abuse, and death threats thrown her way. Yet the labour government can tell us to vote yes, without any repercussions. The houses that were given to the aboriginals are trashed, money spent on alcohol. What more can be done. as one poster said ,they are happy to live that way

There is a lot wrong in our own country too.

It's a referendum, it's not being forced on any sector without them expressing an opinion.

Thank you very much for your contributions nanna8 and Callistemon.
I dislike the tone of some of the comments on here, and I especially dislike the word colonisers. It sounds derogatory in my opinion.
Anyway to be honest, if we live in Britain, or anywhere that’s not Australia, it’s not got a jot to do with us. In the same way as laws enforcing the wearing of the abaya in Soudi has nothing to do with us, or the death penalty in America has nothing to do with us. I agree with neither of these examples but it’s nothing to do with me. Nor is what the Australian Parliament are doing got anything to do with me, but at least it’s not a suggestion to introduce the death penalty or a suggestion to behave misogynistically legally.

It sounds so much like apartheid South Africa
Nothing like it

You are making it sound as if there is no Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander representation allowed in Parliament, Whitewave and that integration and representation is forbidden.

peo.gov.au/understand-our-parliament/your-questions-on-notice/questions/how-many-aboriginal-or-torres-straits-islander-mps-or-senators-are-there-and-what-are-their-names/

Not all Indigenous People agree with this, some are vociferously opposed to it, including some prominent leaders like Warren Mundine and Jacinta Price.
Although Noel Pearson is in favour of it.

www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/indigenous-people-opposing-australias-voice-referendum-2023-05-11/

I feel very uncomfortable reading about 1/8th aborigine
Why?
Well, just as we can - get our DNA done ?

Or if a great-grandparent is a Indigenous Australian?
Like some of DGC's school friends?

nanna8

Don’t talk uninformed garbage. No one here is anti immigration because we are ALL immigrants. First generation migrants are close to 30 % of the population these days - vast majority now no longer of British descent. It is a lot harder for a Brit to get here than almost any others now, reverse of what it was.

😁

Oh good, I hoped you might contribute, nanna8

DD has been very interested in this and I should have taken more notice. Not all indigenous Australians are in agreement over this as far as I can gather.

maddyone

Please let’s not descend into the idea that colonisers are the problem. Those who have moved to Australia have built the country into what it is now, which is successful and rich.
I’m wondering why the indigenous population are apparently, according to what is written here because I have no other knowledge, living in what sounds like squalor and not working? Is this actually the case? I don’t know but I think we should not think those who have made the country into what it now is, are somehow in the wrong. I know the indigenous population were greatly disadvantaged two hundred or so years ago, but I don’t think they are today.
I admit to having a limited knowledge of Australia.

Not all of the indigenous population are like that, so many are integrated, married to those of other origins, contribute to society in so many ways. Just like some in the whole of the population, there will always be those who don't want to work, drink, take drugs etc.

There's a long way to go still but I'm not sure that much of this has been reported properly.

colonisers it's a while since the British formed penal colonies there.
There are so many different nationalities living in Australia from every corner of the world.