The NHS this winter. “Let’s be careful out there”. Needs must it seems.

We should realise as well that healthcare is big business and one of the reasons some Tory MPs want to restrict the NHS is because they are already on the payroll of private health providers.. The really sad thing is that both Tory and Labour MPs are now taking private healthcare cash www.thenational.scot/news/uk-news/23568478.much-labour-tory-mps-get-private-health-firms/

JenniferEccles

I’m appalled at the behaviour of these selfish, already well paid doctors and consultants.
What about their commitment to their patients on the ever- lengthening waiting lists ?
What is it they are demanding - 35% isn’t it? It’s obviously all about money, despite what they say.

I hope the government holds its nerve.

Many get paid less than a cleaner after accruing 5 years of student debt! £28000 isn’t well paid for caring for 90 patients for 12 hours overnight

Well, over here, more and more are paying for private healthcare. I'm doing the same.

www.theguardian.com/society/2023/may/24/record-rise-in-people-using-private-healthcare-amid-nhs-frustration

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-62042465

That doesn't happen in the US. People either pay for healthcare even if it ruins them or thy die. There are state schools with police in the corridors for those who can't afford private - even universities are mostly private, and the welfare system is rudimentary to say the least. No revolution though.

Surely you risk ending up with a French Revolution situation, then, Doodledog. The rich behind their barriers with armed guards but eventually they’ll be overwhelmed by the impoverished masses.

maddyone

Just why?
Why does this government seem to want to stop people accessing healthcare? I just don’t understand why?
Surely a healthy workforce is preferable to a sick one?
This £200 million is a drop in the ocean. It won’t do anything at all.

The Americans don't understand why, if they are lucky enough to be healthy, they should pay for those who are not, and see the idea of compulsory contributions to a healthcare system as infringing their liberty.

If we started to think like that, they could get rid of education, housing associations, benefits and so on, which fits with the Tory mentality of self-reliance.

I absolutely disagree with that way of thinking, but I do understand the 'logic' behind it.

Just why?
Why does this government seem to want to stop people accessing healthcare? I just don’t understand why?
Surely a healthy workforce is preferable to a sick one?
This £200 million is a drop in the ocean. It won’t do anything at all.

200 million seems like a drop in the ocean - when it looks like we have a nasty flu strain on the way, along with rising Covid infections.

This 'government' does seem hell bent on self destruction right now. They won't negotiate with the doctors. It's as if they really want to destroy our country. Maybe, realising they won't be back in, they do?

My dd works as a medic in A&E. She says she spends half her time apologising to patients for shortcomings in the NHS. Long waits to be seen in the first place, sometimes in an ambulance, non-availability of GP appointments, patients who are coming in sicker than they need have been because Outpatients appts or previously prescribed treatments have been delayed and complications have set in. Having to wait on trolleys in corridors, no beds being available, scans and tests not being available - it’s endless.

I don’t know why any government would want to prevent the population from having healthcare. Yes, it’s expensive but having people unable to work and needing sickness or disability benefits is surely even more expensive? I’ve heard of doctors having to pay privately to be seen themselves in order to get back to work, otherwise they’d be sitting at home waiting and unable to work! It seems so self-defeating not to invest in your workforce.

Most doctors are hard working and exhausted
Some junior doctors are hard up (I counsel them) and still paying for training etc
The strike is about much more than pay
35% is a starting point for bargaining but the ‘government ‘ won’t even sit round the table to negotiate
This government is SO DESTRUCTIVE that I really believe in a hidden agenda - which may just be to poison the chalice for Labour

This all makes for such depressing reading, particularly as a huge majority of the population would keep some form of NHS but we have a government who has gradually and assiduously been ensuring that it fails.

They have been successful haven’t they?

When I was a GP partner one of my partners left and went to Australia. He was in his late thirties and a great doctor. He said he was becoming cynical and he didn't like the person he was becoming. He felt he couldn't continue to work at that pace without ending up broken himself. He loves the gentler pace of medical practice in Australia.
I retired at 56. I was exhausted. I couldn't keep up the volume of work any longer. At the end of each day I barely had the energy to drive ten miles home and struggled to think or communicate.
There is a lot of goodwill in the NHS but it is disappearing fast

Yes - New Zealand would actually be better than Australia because it has a very low population density. I have to say it is also deteriorating here. We used to be able to see a GP on the day we rang up but now you do have to wait a few days. This has been the last 10 years or so so not Covid related. There is a big shortage of GPS, especially in country areas and, yes, we do have to pay for an appointment.

Some brilliant posts here, showing there are large numbers of people who really do understand the situation the doctors find themselves in (and I’m saying nothing about the other posts that show ignorance of the situation) and if you’ve got medics in your family I hope something improves quickly for the doctors so you won’t find yourself in the situation I’m in, where my daughter who is a doctor has already left the country to work in New Zealand, taking our beloved grandchildren with her. I wouldn’t wish that on anyone as it absolutely broke my heart when she left.

Oreo, they're being clear it's not just for their personal pay packets, it's to protest at the way the NHS is being run into the ground and is becoming unsafe for patients. Also, I see no reason why a junior doctor, who may be a very skilled and long serving expert who just isn't a consultant yet, not necessarily someone fresh out of med school, shouldn't be able to support themselves in reasonable comfort. Too many are leaving the country in order to earn enough to, for example, start a family of their own.

Pay the doctors more , they deserve every penny! They are constantly doing two jobs at once, updating they’re skills and dealing with a lot of bureaucracy

A pretty awful and ignorant comment about the salaries of doctors. Maybe senior consultants can earn large salaries,
But try reading “This Is Going To Hurt” written by Adam Kay.
See how overpaid as a junior doctor he was, see how he worked only a few hours each day!! Go to a large A&E Department of a large hospital one Saturday evening and see just how overpaid and underworked all the NHS staff are!! I went with a friend on such a night and the ambulance staff had opened up a large corridor so they could tend to the patients there as opposed to being treated outside in an ambulance, thereby not depriving accident victims etc of such a vehicle.
The ONE heart consultant there worked his socks off never
Loosing his patience once.
Im appalled by your contribution and how little you know

albertina

I have to confess to feeling quite nervous going into Winter. I have just had Covid and was really ill for 2 weeks. I will have all the jabs on offer and keep my fingers crossed that I managed to dodge the bugs.
Re the doctors and consultants. I think they should be paid more and I believe most of them are striking because they wish to protest at the awful state of the NHS.
I made a list of stuff I found useful when I was ill. If it helps anyone here I would be very happy. See below.

A covid test kit
Changes of pyjamas and bedding
Paracetamol or other painkiller
Face wipes
Soft tissues
Bin bags
Larger than usual supply of toilet rolls
Bottom wipes
Bottles of water
Multivitamins
Hand gel
Disinfectant wipes
Sterilising tablets for keeping toothbrush etc germ free
Dettol spray for surfaces
Thermometer
Good friends on text and / or phone
TV/ Radio / DVDs/ Funny books
Food delivery service for when your appetite picks up

Great post! Can I just add an oximeter to check if one’s oxygen level is getting dangerously low….

A useful list, Albertina. I packed a 'grab bag' for myself and one for DH at the beginning of lockdown with many, if not all, of those items.

Son about to leave being a GP as he cannot bear any longer to be unable to help the people as he is trained to do and wishes to heal. Too many forms to complete, 10 minute appointments, no lunch break, 12 hour days, unbearable stress. One colleague going to work for Aldi. Another leaving for New Zealand, where she will have one EIGHTH of the number of patients. He will retrain after 10 years giving his all. This is part of the reason the doctors are on strike. I am heartbroken to see him like this and he is a strong, brilliant, kind man.

I have to confess to feeling quite nervous going into Winter. I have just had Covid and was really ill for 2 weeks. I will have all the jabs on offer and keep my fingers crossed that I managed to dodge the bugs.
Re the doctors and consultants. I think they should be paid more and I believe most of them are striking because they wish to protest at the awful state of the NHS.
I made a list of stuff I found useful when I was ill. If it helps anyone here I would be very happy. See below.

A covid test kit
Changes of pyjamas and bedding
Paracetamol or other painkiller
Face wipes
Soft tissues
Bin bags
Larger than usual supply of toilet rolls
Bottom wipes
Bottles of water
Multivitamins
Hand gel
Disinfectant wipes
Sterilising tablets for keeping toothbrush etc germ free
Dettol spray for surfaces
Thermometer
Good friends on text and / or phone
TV/ Radio / DVDs/ Funny books
Food delivery service for when your appetite picks up

I have a Disease which means I really have to get into the NHS system. It will be 19 months from GP referral to first assessment appointment and I wouldn't be surprised if that is pushed back even further. I have seen a private consultant 3 times, he prescribes medication which is very effective - the GP issues the prescription, no problem. My GP has stated quite clearly that due to the state of the NHS, if you can afford to pay, you should go private. The situation is so sad, I agree doctors need paying more but I doubt that will solve the NHS situation.

I think the NHS Doctors and nurses etc are worth every penny, and deserve a good pay rise. My husband tore his retina on Friday last week, they saw him within an hour. He went in for bloods on Monday and his Dr saw him waiting and asked if he'd already had his op? No, still waiting - from one regional hospital she made 4 phone calls to another and got him in within 48 hrs (thereby saving his sight). Altogether this week we have had 1 Op and 5 appointments.

Yes we struggled to park, yes we spent many hours waiting with many others...but this Friday my husband's vision is safe. Is 35% too much, no, it's what they've lost over the last 10 years of NO payrises...but our Government want a disillusioned, downtrodden NHS and population...so they'll never get it.

Like another poster I hope that I won't need NHS services: private hospitals in the UK don't do A and E.
I've run out if sympathy fir striking doctors, especially now that consultants and junior doctors have decided to strike together with all the negative for patients consequences.
Many commenters say we should pay doctors what they are worth. How much is is that? If your pension as a consultant is likely to be £78k per annum, the pay can't be that awful. A GP retiring some 7 years ago received £330k as a lump sum and £60k per annum pension.

White wave mark2 sorry can’t agree with you , most consultants only work part time for the Nhs but get a starting salary of £140,000, then they continue to do their private work usually at the same hospital . Even days when they are on strike they hsve been able to do their private work so they are Losing nothing by striking , it’s the poor patients who are suffering as always . The NHS will
Never recover whilst they continue to hsve so many levels of management. One admin office I knew had SEVEN levels of senior management above her and never met them . Ludicrous