Tory U-Turn on green policies

“It's not that expensive to insulate most houses effectively.”

DIL has just converted an outbuilding into a holiday cottage the structure was similar to most pre 1930 houses, building regulation insulation requirements were very costly. To do that to older residential properties will be even more expensive.

The local council are converting a friends place to heat pump and radiators under the low income insulation scheme, it’s about half done at present I’ll be very interested in the result.

I live outside a village with no gas. I have an oil boiler and underfloor heating which I'm told would be a major problem if I have to have a heat pump, may even need to have radiators installed. My car is several years old. If I have to replace car with an electric version and also have a heat pump installed, even with the govt grant I shall be in debt for the first time in my life.

Absolutely right Fleurpepper!

Thanks Doodledog and others for understanding.
No problem. It's hard to believe how short-sighted people can be. 'It's not that expensive to do xyz' is easy to say when you are comfortably off or if someone else is going to pick up the tab.

I'm sure we all agree that there should have been measures taken years ago, and most of us will have done and will still be doing as much as we can to do the small things available to us to make a difference. But the truth is that those things don't actually make much of a difference, compared to the sorts of things that governments should have been doing for decades.

aggie

I’m too old for it to affect me , but what kind of environment are our children going to see ?
We need to stop using fossil fuels for a start

I heard a discussion on radio earlier today about the fact that climate change is happening faster than previously thought so we should be moving faster towards net zero, not slower. It is not so much us that are going to suffer the effects, but our children and grandchildren.

I've looked into green adaptations to my house but can't afford most of them, but my plan is to downsize and move to a cheaper area. Then a priority will be things like installing solar panels and a heat pump and getter a more environmentally friendly vehicle. It may not pay me dividends in my lifetime but hopefully my descendants will reap the benefit.

Obviously not everyone has those options, but we all need to do whatever we can as soon as we can.

Doodledog

*Thanks Doodledog and others for understanding.*
No problem. It's hard to believe how short-sighted people can be. 'It's not that expensive to do xyz' is easy to say when you are comfortably off or if someone else is going to pick up the tab.

I'm sure we all agree that there should have been measures taken years ago, and most of us will have done and will still be doing as much as we can to do the small things available to us to make a difference. But the truth is that those things don't actually make much of a difference, compared to the sorts of things that governments should have been doing for decades.

So what do you suggest?

Roof insulation isn't that expensive and there are cost savings within a year or so. That's even without considering the environment.

Yes, of course there should have been measures ages ago, but nobody can change the past! All we can do is influence the present and the future. Blame doesn't help anybody.

knspol

I live outside a village with no gas. I have an oil boiler and underfloor heating which I'm told would be a major problem if I have to have a heat pump, may even need to have radiators installed. My car is several years old. If I have to replace car with an electric version and also have a heat pump installed, even with the govt grant I shall be in debt for the first time in my life.

I would imagine your oil bill is already expensive. Nobody's forcing you to change.

Katie59

“It's not that expensive to insulate most houses effectively.”

DIL has just converted an outbuilding into a holiday cottage the structure was similar to most pre 1930 houses, building regulation insulation requirements were very costly. To do that to older residential properties will be even more expensive.

The local council are converting a friends place to heat pump and radiators under the low income insulation scheme, it’s about half done at present I’ll be very interested in the result.

If people are currently living in a space with the same temperature as an outbuilding, good luck to them! Are you seriously saying that nothing has been done to the majority of homes to make them more energy efficient than an outbuilding?

PS. My daughter did the same and it wasn't as eye-wateringly expensive as you seem to be claiming.

So let’s start doing everything we can now shall we.

Sorry doodlebug, my message about misunderstanding did not apply to you, I thought I was replying to a much earlier post. Haven’t got the hang of this system yet!

I think it is a very sensible decision. It seems you have to be very rich to go green. Our house is 1930’s - 9 inch solid walls, gas central heating, some original windows and all original doors. I could not dare to think just how much it would cost to ‘turn our house green’ - it would be unaffordable for us.

Now I’ve got a name wrong! Sorry Doodledog

It beggars belief that people can witness the devastation in so many parts of the world this summer that is a direct result of climate change and still think that we have time on our side. Do you gransnetters arguing for a more gradual approach not understand the consequences? Mind boggling, heads- in-the - sand attitudes seem to prevail so God help us.

Thank god for this small mercy. Yes there is a Global problem with warming and many other green issues, but its like I've been saying for years, its pointless for us in the UK to try to make changes , Why ? Because we are a teensy weensy set of islands thats why.. whatever we do here, will have little or no affect on the world . Its impossible, because we are so small, all that these "Green Projects" do, is cost us more and more money, we already pay a large portion of our bills towards supporting green energy. Electric cars are a total waste unless you are mega rich. A second user Electric car is already more expensive than any carbon fuelled alternative, with ranges of 70 miles approx, on one charge, half of that in cold weather it can easily quadruple our travelling times, if not more. And if you decide that it would be a good idea to renew the battery system with the costs of between £3,500 & £4,500 for a new set, you suddenly realise you have made the most expensive mistake of your life.
What is so spitefully wrong, is how the government are allowing fuel suppliers to constantly rip us off with ever increasing gas, electric and car fuel prices, come on Rishi we're not stupid, when we can plainly see that energy companies are making billions in profits, year after year you know there is something decidely fishy about the whole damn thing !

fb.watch/nduJUQ8zCa/

well he swears a lot, warning- but he says it as it is.

svtoen

Sorry doodlebug, my message about misunderstanding did not apply to you, I thought I was replying to a much earlier post. Haven’t got the hang of this system yet!

No worries . It's just a conversation.

montymops

I think it is a very sensible decision. It seems you have to be very rich to go green. Our house is 1930’s - 9 inch solid walls, gas central heating, some original windows and all original doors. I could not dare to think just how much it would cost to ‘turn our house green’ - it would be unaffordable for us.

You can make sure you have adequate insulation in the loft, and in your place, I would look at replacing the windows with double, or triple glazed windows. If you like the look of your original windows, you could consider additional interior glazing which is probably a bit old fashioned these days but is effective as double glazing. The prospect of getting replacement windows individually made in the original design (so although double glazed, they look identical to the original ones) is so horrendously expensive that it would put most people off. I know this because when my son lived in his flat in London, in an old Victorian school, he had replica but double glazed windows and doors made and put in, and it cost a small fortune. So not really a solution for many people.

Attlee

Seven bins, enforced car sharing, tax on meat, tax on flights, all strawmen.
They are going to fight the next election on this aren't they?
I am beyond disappointed with this announcement, as are the car manufacturers who had been assured that the policies were going ahead as planned.

Only Ford have really come out against it. Toyota are in favour and BMW are indifferent. Naturally most of the media is only covering the remarks from Ford and not from any of the others. Ford production in the UK has been reducing for many years anyway.

montymops

I think it is a very sensible decision. It seems you have to be very rich to go green. Our house is 1930’s - 9 inch solid walls, gas central heating, some original windows and all original doors. I could not dare to think just how much it would cost to ‘turn our house green’ - it would be unaffordable for us.

So the house might see you out, but if nobody does anything to it, it will just rot.

A sensible policy from Sunak - for once. There is no way we will be able to produce the massively larger amount of electricity required for a huge takeup of electric vehicles and electric heating systems by 2030. It was always an arbritrary target - the initial target was 2040 but Johnson changed it to 2030 because it sounded better (seriously!). 12 years gives us much more time to improve charging infrastructure - how on earth are people who do not have a driveway supposed to manage when there are nowhere near enough public charging points? Heat pumps are most suitable for new build properties, retrofitting is a nightmare and very expensive to boot. 2035 brings us into line with the EU, Japan and a number of other countries so I have no idea why people are whining so much about it.

As for reaching our 2030 carbon target, Sunak has already said he is scrapping the ban on onshore wind, which should help quite a bit. We have exceeded every single one of our carbon targets to date, and I see no reason why a short delay of a few years for stopping sales of new petrol/diesel cars, gas boilers and oil boilers should affect this. Anyone buying a new gas or oil boiler in the next few years will be getting something far more energy efficient than their old ones in any event.

Where is the previous law which stated that everybody should have electric heating systems by 2030?

Hopefully, the government will now invest in research into green energy and the training for it. I must admit I missed that announcement.

PS. Sunak will be safely ensconced in his £5 million Californian home by 2030 (or 2035), so I don't suppose he cares.

What I would like to see happen is as follows:
*A truthful and fact-checked announcement of what is proposed (not really possible so close to an election, I realise), with proper timescales.

*A proper conversation about what really matters when it comes to global warming - do we need to ration flying, close 'dirty' factories, tax meat (why not?), or what? How do things like that compare with, eg, recycling glass or using Method kitchen products, how will it all be prioritised, and who will pay?

*Some sort of points system so that there is reward for compliance, rather than pricing things like freedom of movement out of the reach of the poor. I don't know - maybe we all get 100 points which we can choose to spend on flights or meat or plastic items? If we recycle enough items we could get more points - that sort of thing - that is just a vague idea, not an actual proposal

*A universal system of recycling, with councils being obliged to provide accessible facilities so that people can comply with the rules - bins provided and collected, tips open all week and so on. Arrangements made for those without transport so that their rubbish is also collected at a reasonable charge.

*An independent inquiry into how much any domestic proposals are likely to cost and schemes put in place to make them affordable to all.

*Genuine government-controlled schemes to help people living in houses without things like insulation or double glazing to have them upgraded affordably. This should not be means tested, as it is an investment in the country's housing stock, and more ecologically sound houses will eventually be owned by the next generations, so the benefits will last for years.

That will do for now, but it might put people's minds at rest.

Growstuff

“PS. My daughter did the same and it wasn't as eye-wateringly expensive as you seem to be claiming.”

So did she dig the floor out and put 100mm insulation in the floor and 150mm around all walls and ceiling, plus timber and insulation has nearly doubled in price in the last 2 yrs.