Just how stupid do the Tories think we are?

Witzend

Salti

You're no more cynical then I am. I think it takes a "certain" type of person to succeed in politics. I watched the 1990 mini-series House of cards this week, set in Westminster, and thoroughly enjoyed it. As the French would say, "Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose".

Yes, it’s brilliant.
I recently re-read the novel, and was interested to read how it came about. Apparently Michael Dobbs was on holiday with his wife or partner, and endlessly complaining about how rubbishy the novel he was reading was.

Eventually utterly exasperated, she said, ‘Well, if you think you can do better, get on and do it!’ (Or words to that effect.)
And he did.

You do realise that novels are works of fiction (as are TV series such as 'Yes Minister'). They may be based on fact, but they are not fact.

Why don't people read factual, non fiction, analyses of how our government & politicians 'work', for a more balanced picture?

if of

maddyone

It’s not my fault DAR, it’s the fault of the politicians. Please refrain from being so condescending and rude about me.

You misread before you decided to harangue me maddyone. I very clearly said:

If our democracy is attacked, and it has been and is being, each if us has responsibility to some degree.

We vote in people who are our representatives. To suggest we no agency allows those who wish to rule rather than represent to believe we are handing them exactly that when we vote.

To suggest all politicians are the same is akin to suggesting all people behave in the same way. Neither is true.

Salti

You're no more cynical then I am. I think it takes a "certain" type of person to succeed in politics. I watched the 1990 mini-series House of cards this week, set in Westminster, and thoroughly enjoyed it. As the French would say, "Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose".

Yes, it’s brilliant.
I recently re-read the novel, and was interested to read how it came about. Apparently Michael Dobbs was on holiday with his wife or partner, and endlessly complaining about how rubbishy the novel he was reading was.

Eventually utterly exasperated, she said, ‘Well, if you think you can do better, get on and do it!’ (Or words to that effect.)
And he did.

I wouldn’t identify as cynical. I don’t agree with the often used comment that all politicians lie, they’re all in it for themselves, none are to be trusted. Politicians, like other ambitious people come in all shapes and sizes.
Like the police, they reflect the society they serve. The country voted Johnson in with a huge majority, the tragedy is that as the non Tory voters predicted, it’s been disastrous for the country.
Starmer and his front bench may not be perfect. It’s got to be better than the current lot

silverlining48

Bring it on. No one can be worse than these clowns

I can think of many countries where politicians are much much worse than ours, that does not excuse the way that ours have been behaving recently.

It’s not my fault DAR, it’s the fault of the politicians. Please refrain from being so condescending and rude about me.

maddyone

Twas ever thus.
All politicians think the population are stupid, and they are pretty well all lacking in any real care towards any of us. The higher up the greasy pole they climb, the more contemptuous of us they become.
Don’t trust any of them, whatever their political allegiance. They are in it for themselves and themselves alone. Do not think they care about you, the poor, the disabled, the pensioners, the sick, or anyone else. They care about power.

Yes, I’m cynical. I wonder why?

So you believe that in our everyday behaviour we all behave as badly as the worst at of us? The idea that all politicians are the same lacks logic and is basically someone pretending none of it us their fault.

If our democracy is attacked, and it has been and is being, each if us has responsibility to some degree. The fact that most of us have no idea how we can put it right, rather than just talk about it, puts us all in the same category as most politicians.

Grantanow

Today Fraser Nelson in the Telegraph analyses Sunak's strategy.

He writes 'He (i.e., Sunak) had reconciled himself to writing the cheque for projects he disliked but Boris Johnson wanted (like HS2). But when the prime minister pledged to subsidise care home costs, Sunak knew – as chancellor – that the plans were just not being put in place to make it happen. It was, he thought, a fake promise. They were all living a lie.'

Very good to see the Telegraph calling out Johnson for a blatantly untrue pledge to help social care: there was no plan to implement it. It seems to have disappeared into the piffle cloud surrounding the Tory Party. What a surprise! HS2 next?

It really is no wonder Sunak is pulling out of various promises as, just as they have behaved for 13 years, none of the ground work has been done so they will jot be ready to move forward. Suggesting this is doing us a favour is the language of Baldrick.

He is trying to make the lack of attention to detail, which is a real and negative characteristic of the Neo-Liberal far-right, into a positive. All he is actually doing is covering up the increasing degradation of living standards.

In many instances, the people who crave political power are the ones least suited. Those who would be well suited don't want it.

johnnyretro

Your point is so wrong in many ways. This idea mirrored by so many is exactly what they want us to think, if the average person turns a blind eye to politics then there is a greater chance that this greedy Elitist mob will regain power again and again.
We must never ever take this attitude, most people did, then one time back in 2015 along comes this average looking chap with a heart as big as mount everest, who has spent his career campaigning and helping the less fortunate, suddenly he is voted in as leader of the labour party. Every portion of this man has been there for the poor & the oppressed, irrespective of their creed this man tried to be the Robin Hood of our time, giving back to the people the power and the riches stolen from us by every other P.m and aristocrat in history.. but the people were not ready, blinded by ignorance they found it easier to ignore the truth believe the lies of the gutter press. and thereby gave away the only chance we ever had of improving our lives!

Agree

The right the staffers in his party including Starmer smeared him too.

Rachael Swindon Blog

The Labour Party conference of 2023 won’t be a place to go and wave your free Palestine flags, but if you want to meet up with weapons manufacturers, major banks, private healthcare providers, fossil fuel companies, or maybe even a contentious CIA-funded spy-tech firm, you’ll feel right at home.

Labour have absolutely no shame in demonstrating how they are bought and paid for by the same morally dubious interests that have been working the strings on the Tory party for the past 13 years.

If Keir Starmer can sell out to corporate interests and the billionaire media to this extreme degree while in opposition I shudder to think what he will do in power.

And to those who still laughably insist Keir Starmer will reveal his true radical colours when he gains power, I ask you a couple of very simple questions:

Firstly, where is the evidence to support your far-fetched fantasy?

Was it the abandonment of the House of Lords reform, the continuation of cruel Tory welfare policy, or the swiftly deleted tweets demanding a second Brexit referendum that convinced you that Keir Starmer is a misunderstood shy radical?

Still, at least we have been spared the meat tax! and compulsary car sharing! That was a close shave.

johnnyretro

You are certainly right about the influence and lies of the press, not just the press though.

Oh bless you.

Your point is so wrong in many ways. This idea mirrored by so many is exactly what they want us to think, if the average person turns a blind eye to politics then there is a greater chance that this greedy Elitist mob will regain power again and again.
We must never ever take this attitude, most people did, then one time back in 2015 along comes this average looking chap with a heart as big as mount everest, who has spent his career campaigning and helping the less fortunate, suddenly he is voted in as leader of the labour party. Every portion of this man has been there for the poor & the oppressed, irrespective of their creed this man tried to be the Robin Hood of our time, giving back to the people the power and the riches stolen from us by every other P.m and aristocrat in history.. but the people were not ready, blinded by ignorance they found it easier to ignore the truth believe the lies of the gutter press. and thereby gave away the only chance we ever had of improving our lives!

I don't trust any of them. Do they have to fail a lie detector test to get into politics.

Bring it on. No one can be worse than these clowns

Whitewavemark2

No, not all politicians are as bad as what we have been landed with lately.

I give you Johnson, Truss and now Sunak.

You would be hard pushed to find another lot of such scoundrels of any political colour.

Early days ,Labour haven’t got in yet.😖

maddyone

Twas ever thus.
All politicians think the population are stupid, and they are pretty well all lacking in any real care towards any of us. The higher up the greasy pole they climb, the more contemptuous of us they become.
Don’t trust any of them, whatever their political allegiance. They are in it for themselves and themselves alone. Do not think they care about you, the poor, the disabled, the pensioners, the sick, or anyone else. They care about power.

Yes, I’m cynical. I wonder why?

I agree with you.

Same over here is Oz. They’re all ‘orrible, don’t trust a single one. Sometimes they start off ok but to keep sweet with the leadership they compromise - and compromise - and compromise.

maddyone

You’re an idealist Whitewave.
It’s nice to be an idealist because you believe things can be changed. Sadly I lost that a long time ago and now I’m just cynical.

I am also a cynic! I feel as if there are no political parties (save possibly The Greens) who share my core values or beliefs. It is deeply disheartening

Sunak doesn't have any strategy.

He's just hanging on to power for as long as possible and desperately clinging onto the hope that his populist wheezes will garner enough votes to make the tory's inevitable loss at the next GE a little less humiliating than currently forecast.

Delaying the 'green' agenda has certainly gone down well with the tory voting demographic if Gnet posts are anything to go by....

Today Fraser Nelson in the Telegraph analyses Sunak's strategy.

He writes 'He (i.e., Sunak) had reconciled himself to writing the cheque for projects he disliked but Boris Johnson wanted (like HS2). But when the prime minister pledged to subsidise care home costs, Sunak knew – as chancellor – that the plans were just not being put in place to make it happen. It was, he thought, a fake promise. They were all living a lie.'

Very good to see the Telegraph calling out Johnson for a blatantly untrue pledge to help social care: there was no plan to implement it. It seems to have disappeared into the piffle cloud surrounding the Tory Party. What a surprise! HS2 next?

nanna8, I don't think they've changed that much - but at least they used to aim for a veneer of respectability, would, at least, try to cover their tracks - but no more.

Keep people fearful and they’re easier to lead
They certainly proved they could do that with Covid. Now they know they can more or less do what they want with you.