Police turn in guns - can we blame them?

They are not saying anything of the sort, Siope; they are saying they want support and not the threat of a charge of murder when they are lawfully deploying firearms.
I endorse what Maddyone says; this man was not innocent.
He was involved in a nightclub attack and was allegedly one of five men conspiring to commit murder, when the victim was chased, shot on the dancefloor, chased and shot twice more. Kabu had been in a young offenders' institute for four years having been found guilty of possessing imitation firearms with intent to cause fear of violence.
The car he was driving had been linked to a firearms incident the previous day. He was attempting to ram the police car that blocked him, and repeatedly refused to get out of the car when ordered.
So not innocent but a dangerous man with form, and given chances to surrender.

I don't know in truth all the details of this case but it does seem like a catch 22 situation for the Police. The armed officers are highly trained and have to make split second decisions to protect the public. However they still have to be accountable, as someone else said there need to be checks and balances. We cannot have armed police if we don't expect them to shoot.

If you ask police to point a loaded gun with his finger on the trigger at a suspect, accidents are going to happen. No police officer goes to work with the intention of killing anyone, if it happens to a black person it immediately become racist and a political issue.

Sparklefizz

BlueBelle Chris Kaba had served time in a Young Offenders Prison for carrying a firearm previously. Perhaps if you read this info, you will have a better understanding of the pressures the police were ... and always are ... under, in order to keep the rest of us safe.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Chris_Kaba

If that is true (that he previously carried a gun) then there was clearly a risk he was armed even if the officer did not know that. If the officer feared for his life or someone else's life then the CPS should not prosecute.

Jean Charles de Menendes had already been stopped by the police and was effectively in custody, lying face down on the ground with his hands cuffed behind his back.
He was shot at very close range with a bullet to the back if the head.
His crime was that he was brown and thus thought to be a terrorist.

I see the army has been stood down, and the Met officers are back.

This kind of thread is what brings me back again and again to Gransnet: I had one view before I began reading, another half way through and another, more complex one by the end.

Thank you.

We need armed officers. As others have pointed out, the officers involved had reason to believe he may be armed. He didn’t cooperate. A split decision was made.
I’m not surprised the armed response officers are refusing to carry weapons

Well he hadn't actually carried a real gun. He'd used an imitation firearm to frighten someone.
There are so many anomalies in the story of this man, what you take as the truth must influence your views
So he had been found guilty of carrying an imitation firearm.
But he'd served his sentence and was an apprentice with the prospect of becoming an architect. One of the objects of Young Offenders Units is to educate and enable offenders to turn their life around.
He was driving a car linked to a crime, but it wasn't his car.
He was charged after his death with being involved in a shooting, but at the time that charge was not active.
Perhaps he was involved in crime, perhaps he had friends who were. But there is absolutely no evidence to show that he was a danger to police officers.

I would say that I don't think one police officer should be held responsible entirely for this, the people who trained him, the people who decide who is suitable to carry firearms and the officer in charge of the operation on the day all contributed.

And yet the DPP has authorised this officer’s prosecution. I wonder why that is? …
For those who say ‘my son would always obey police instructions etc’ I would reply that sadly the experiences of many young men who are not white at the hands of the Met police (institutionally racist, remember ?) might well lead them to act quite differently.
And as I recall the penalty for having a police record is not generally death.

SiobhanSharpe

And yet the DPP has authorised this officer’s prosecution. I wonder why that is? …
For those who say ‘my son would always obey police instructions etc’ I would reply that sadly the experiences of many young men who are not white at the hands of the Met police (institutionally racist, remember ?) might well lead them to act quite differently.
And as I recall the penalty for having a police record is not generally death.

The DPP is responding to political pressure, if it didn’t it would be accused of a cover up.

Siope

It seems to me that those officers who are withdrawing are saying they want power without accountability, which I’m opposed to.

There needs to be accountability.

But this prosecution sounds rather shaky if what we read is true.

Why would anyone carry an imitation firearm, how can police in a split second know that. These policemen put their lives on the line in such situations, we should be supporting them, the army can’t do their job, no more than the policeman be a soldier without training.

If you go out with a gun (imitation or real), then you must accept the risk of getting shot. No one can tell, from a distance, what's real and what's not.

No one goes out with any sort of gun, unless they are up to something.

So, you make a choice.🙄

DiamondLily

If you go out with a gun (imitation or real), then you must accept the risk of getting shot. No one can tell, from a distance, what's real and what's not.

No one goes out with any sort of gun, unless they are up to something.

So, you make a choice.🙄

Exactly 👍

We only really know what the media has told us. I have to agree with SiobhanSharpe about the experiences of black people with the Metropolitan police which may cause them to want to escape. Indeed, even in Southampton, I have seen the results of a beating given to a prisoner on a routine visit to court because they knew on another occasion a police officer had been injured whilst chasing the prisoner. It was witnessed by a young defence solicitor just starting out and they were pressured to withdraw their statement. Whilst there are a lot of honest, hardworking police officers who are worth their weight in gold, there are others who are violent, racist and wouldn't think twice about hurting someone.
Although it is a horrible situation for an innocent policeman, if he isn't guilty, then if the legal system works as it should, he will be rightly exonerated and there can be no complaints of a cover up.

So if you once carry an imitation firearm, are convicted and serve your sentence every time you leave the house you are in danger of being shot? What ever sort of a justice system is that?

Glorianny

So if you once carry an imitation firearm, are convicted and serve your sentence every time you leave the house you are in danger of being shot? What ever sort of a justice system is that?

If you ram a police car in order to try and escape, if you are driving a car that has been used in the last 24 hours for criminal purposes and is not yours, refuse to get out of the car when requested, you have made those choices…

Cabowich

I'm 100% behind the police officers on this one. The pressure put on them and their families while a long-winded investigation goes on after a fatal shooting must be awful.

completely agree

I don't blame those officers who have handed back their firearms at all. The accusation of murder is a disgrace and why should they do that awful job if that could be the result.

Well he hadn't actually carried a real gun. He'd used an imitation firearm to frighten someone.

My husband worked for a motor dealership and took a customer out on a test drive. On a quiet country road he pulled over to swap seats and let the customer drive.
The customer pulled a gun, aimed it at my husband, locked all the doors and drove off, leaving him stranded miles from anywhere.

A police officer later told my husband that he would have thought it was a real gun.
"Frighten" doesn't begin to describe it.

Message withdrawn as it quotes a deleted post.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

My father was a senior officer CID at the time of the Manchester bomb. He was instructed to go on a firearms course. Mum didn’t want him to attend because she didn’t want him armed. He didn’t want police to be routinely armed but of course had to attend the training
He was subsequently involved in managing policing in the city when a controversial March took place. We gathered at our parents home praying dad would stay safe that night
Police are the one’s running towards danger as we run away
Armed response officers make split second decisions. We don’t know the full detail but grannygravy sets it out well enough for me, at this stage not to be criticising this officer

Iam64 thank you, we have police officers in our extended family, one is a firearms officer. I totally get the anxiety and worry.

To be honest I am so angry with the rogue officers who have tarnished our brave police officers.

Good post GrannyGravy, you too Maddyone