Tell me how this is right?

I don't care if people question whether or not I'm empathetic. However I do object to being likened to Boris Johnson and his lies. I'm sure that calling or even suggesting that a fellow Gransnetter is a liar is against the site rules. Even if it's not, some of you have resorted to personal insults and, therefore, as far as I'm concerned, this debate is over.

vampirequeen

If I'm tolerant of others and show empathy then I'm happy to have the mental age of 5 years old or younger.

There are many other things in the world that are far more important than one word.

You keep saying this. If that one word (and in fact it's more than one, woman and female) is so insignificant then why do men have to take and use it? Why can't they just worry about the more important things?
The point is, that if women do not have a word that is specifically and exclusively for them then they can't have the protections they require. That which you cannot define you cannot protect.

Pragmatist

Trans women who have transitioned are not women. They are men living the life of a woman having had surgery to make it as real as it can be. Society should accept them as such. Anything else is delusion.

And all these made up genders, its nonsense - there are 3, male, female and intersex

And confusing our children with this nonsense is child abuse - abusing their mental health and confusing them

Sorry to be a pedant but there are only the two sexes, male and female. Intersex people, and many object to that term preferring DSD (difference or disorder of sexual development) are still either male or female, and this is confirmed by DNA testing.

All these genders are about sexual orientation - like gay and straight, but we do not need to wear our sexual orientation as a badge of honour.

vampirequeen

If I'm tolerant of others and show empathy then I'm happy to have the mental age of 5 years old or younger.

There are many other things in the world that are far more important than one word.

Selective empathy is a strange thing.
Believing/condoning lies has nothing to do with empathy.

Trans women who have transitioned are not women. They are men living the life of a woman having had surgery to make it as real as it can be. Society should accept them as such. Anything else is delusion.

And all these made up genders, its nonsense - there are 3, male, female and intersex

And confusing our children with this nonsense is child abuse - abusing their mental health and confusing them

Why on earth would I believe you are empathetic, I view the lies that men can become women in the same way as I view Johnsons many lies. It's very difficult to trust the things people say when they are telling you things you know arent true.

If I'm tolerant of others and show empathy then I'm happy to have the mental age of 5 years old or younger.

There are many other things in the world that are far more important than one word.

When a few people no longer know the difference between a man and a woman, I see no point in explaining something that a 6 year old understands.
I choose to save my time.

He was probably ok to get the award, as the organisation seems to encompass all things.

But, he is not an "outstanding female/woman".🙄

He's a biological man who won an award.

This has nothing to do with the black civil rights movement - men and women took part in that, for equal rights. and this is not comparable..🙄

Thank god there are still some right minded adults around.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12579189/Women-anglers-hail-Mail-Sunday-following-decision-ban-male-born-trans-competitors-female-competitions.html

The point about this person’s beard, Glorianny, is that it is quite obviously a proper testosterone-fuelled beard which has been well looked after, and not the sort of chin hair which some of us who are women find ourselves growing. There is no point telling you this though, as you cannot see it. This person is a man, not a woman or a lesbian.

There is a huge difference between a woman with a beard and a man with a beard who says he is a woman.

In the first instance, the woman presumably has a hormonal (or other sort of) condition that causes her to grow facial hair. Most women will struggle to keep it hidden, and cases such as the one Glorianny linked to are unusual.

A transwoman with a beard, particularly when he says he is ‘widening the bandwidth of what it means to be a woman’ is deliberately flaunting his maleness. How dare a man decide to widen the parameters of femaleness anyway? And a ‘male lesbian’ is a straight man, surely?

Galaxy

He could shave his beard and paint himself blue it will have no impact on whether he is a woman or not.

Exactly. On the other hand, since Glorianny loves referring to the past, to try to validate her POV, the bearded ladies in fairground shows were still women. Females can shave or not, they’re still females.
Doesn’t work for males.

Nice try at deviating into bullying Glorianny. .

He could shave his beard and paint himself blue it will have no impact on whether he is a woman or not.

Wheniwasyourage

If Alex Drummond wants to be accepted as a woman, s/he would shave off the beard, which is obviously carefully looked after. This is presumably a person intelligent enough to know that women do not have beards like that.

Trans men are not trying to take over men's position in society.

The only reason women don't have beards is because it is seen as socially unacceptable for them to do so. In fact many women spend hours of time and lots of money on getting rid of facial hair. Some men have problems growing full beards and some women have extensive facial hair. They re often bullied for it.
www.ecr.co.za/shows/stacey-jsbu/youngest-female-full-beard-uses-it-spread-body-positivity/

vampirequeen Forgot this bit What do you think they're trying to take? well obviously our words to describe ourselves and our safe spaces, awards, sporting medals and records. Is that enough or do you need more? What limits if any would you apply to transwomen, and if none, why apply limits to the other men?

vampirequeen

Rosie51

Safe places are single sex places where women are in a vulnerable state and should be safe and able to maintain privacy and dignity away from men, no matter how those men identify. Areas where women are in a state of undress, or vulnerability eg when in a women's refuge, on a hospital ward. These areas and others have been detailed on many other threads, are you truly saying you've never read a thread on trans issues versus women's rights before?

Incidentally you haven't answered questions put to you. I'll repeat just two of mine here
What exclusive word denotes the sex that is designed to provide the large gamete in sexual reproduction or are we to be denied one because transwomen can't let women have anything that doesn't include them?
^Do you consider Alex Drummond as shown in the photo Doodledog posted to be as much a woman as yourself and your transgender friend? It would be good if you could answer.^

I apologise for not answering your questions.

Q1. I don't think it's a case of trans women being jealous of cis women's ability to have a baby. That's like saying a trans man is jealous that a cis man has sperm. Trans women are women. They're not trying to take anything away from cis women. What do you think they're trying to take?

Q2. Alex Drummond is a woman. It's just that her body wiring doesn't match her brain wiring.

Do you feel as negative about trans men or is it only trans women who offend you?

I didn't say anything about transwomen being jealous of women having babies. I asked is there a word that exclusively describes the sex which is designed to provide the large gamete in sexual reproduction in all mammals. The honest answer is yes and it's FEMALE. That applies whether we're talking about humans, bovines, chickens, sheep or domestic cats and dogs. Neither you nor glorianny can bring yourself to give that honest answer. G ignores it completely and you give an answer to a question that wasn't asked.
I am not negative or offended about either transwomen or transmen, I am negative and offended about a male sex person saying they are female, and especially those that insist on going into women's single sex spaces. If males can be counted in amongst females then female has lost its meaning and is worthless. As I said in a previous post many women are extremely offended by the use of cis, it is a term designed to classify women as a subset of their own sex. It would be considerate if you refrained from using it.

You truly believe that the "lesbian Alex Drummond" has a problem with their male body, although no physical changes have been undertaken and no cross sex hormones are consumed? Alex likes dressing in traditionally female clothing, that does not make Alex a woman.

Q1. I don't think it's a case of trans women being jealous of cis women's ability to have a baby.
You’re right - I think jealousy is the wrong word.
Which word would you use to describe their desperate claims to have period pains and PMT?

That's like saying a trans man is jealous that a cis man has sperm.

Jealous would still be the wrong word, but where is your evidence that a transman has claimed to want sperm?

Trans women are women.
No they aren’t.
That’s your opinion and no more valid than the opinion of those who say transwomen are only trans women. Less valid when you acknowledge that they claim the word women which is a word for females.

They're not trying to take anything away from cis women.
What do you think they're trying to take?

???
Have you missed the medals in competition?
Haven’t you heard about the roles designated for females that TW only got because they lie?
What about their demand to have access to the female only safe spaces that I’ve already explained about?

So what is a woman? It used to be an adult human female, but if men can 'identify' into being women, what exactly does it mean, VQ?

If Alex Drummond wants to be accepted as a woman, s/he would shave off the beard, which is obviously carefully looked after. This is presumably a person intelligent enough to know that women do not have beards like that.

Trans men are not trying to take over men's position in society.

Rosie51

Safe places are single sex places where women are in a vulnerable state and should be safe and able to maintain privacy and dignity away from men, no matter how those men identify. Areas where women are in a state of undress, or vulnerability eg when in a women's refuge, on a hospital ward. These areas and others have been detailed on many other threads, are you truly saying you've never read a thread on trans issues versus women's rights before?

Incidentally you haven't answered questions put to you. I'll repeat just two of mine here
What exclusive word denotes the sex that is designed to provide the large gamete in sexual reproduction or are we to be denied one because transwomen can't let women have anything that doesn't include them?
^Do you consider Alex Drummond as shown in the photo Doodledog posted to be as much a woman as yourself and your transgender friend? It would be good if you could answer.^

I apologise for not answering your questions.

Q1. I don't think it's a case of trans women being jealous of cis women's ability to have a baby. That's like saying a trans man is jealous that a cis man has sperm. Trans women are women. They're not trying to take anything away from cis women. What do you think they're trying to take?

Q2. Alex Drummond is a woman. It's just that her body wiring doesn't match her brain wiring.

Do you feel as negative about trans men or is it only trans women who offend you?

If the 'irrelevancies' are safe spaces, we are talking about them in direct response to a question asked several times by VQ, despite having been told what they are by many of us.

G&T
Once again the same issues always arise on these threads. The same demands are made to answer questions, not politely but aggressively.
By both sides -though you don’t acknowledge that.

And complete irrelevancies are brought in to try and justify the unjustifiable.
So true, and that’s your area of expertise Glorianny.

I too described the single sex places as detailed in the equality act.