Another death by an XL Bully

Nothing seems to have happened after the death of the young woman walking several dogs. Local authorities have the power to limit the numbers walked together but I would have expected a statutory limit to come in rather than continuing to leave the matter to the discretion of local authorities, many of whom have not implemented restrictions.

GSM wrote: " think the problem in moving more quickly is that the XL Bully isn’t an actual breed so some investigation is needed in order to make sure the ban is correct and watertight."

The most efficient solution is to stop dog breeding except by breeders who have special permission to do so. This applies to commercial and private breeders. All male dogs unless specially selected( e.g. for guide dog or police attack dog, or rescue, or detection, should be immediately neutered.

What I don’t understand is that I’ve had dogs for fifty years and don’t remember having a problem until recently. My first three dogs were cocker spaniels. Usually off lead. The only incident I can remember is a Labrador turning on my first spaniel when we were sat outside a pub. She was on lead. I then switched to whippets. No problem with my first whippet but by the time I had my second whippet 17 or so years ago I started having problems with dogs coming up to my dog and going for her throat. Of course things had changed in that, having a sighthound, my dogs were now on lead more often than running free because I can never be 100% sure that they wouldn’t hurt a small dog. But we are now constantly on alert looking for possible dangers especially after a staffie tried to kill her when she was on lead just walking through our village. I don’t know what’s changed in those 17 years and what it will take to make things safe again.

I believe we are a growing band of people who know a little about dogs and are no longer walking our dogs in parks or woodland GSM

I recently attended a memorial for a very well known and respected dog trainer. Room full of experienced dog trainers, or owners like me who attended his residential courses. The common discussion was around avoiding public parks because of the large numbers of out if control dogs, often in packs with ‘professional’ dog walkers. Many of whom have no qualifications or they wouldn’t be walking 7 off lead dogs together
So yes - it won’t be long before all dogs need to be on lead

My dog is very reactive to other dogs so is always on a short lead in public - I wish I could say the same for the many others I encounter who run up to her, their owners wandering along behind thinking it’s funny. They no longer think it’s funny when they see and hear my dog’s reaction. Restraining 40 kg of muscle is no joke. Thankfully we have a very large garden and I have now found a local dog exercise meadow which allows only one dog, or group of dogs, at a time and nobody is allowed to enter until the previous person and their dog/s have left. Why do people not keep their dogs on a lead? They may have a lovely temperament but not every dog (or vehicle) they meet will.

Oreo, I’ve always lived with dogs. My previous 10 were all happy to be off lead, ignore other dogs and walk at my side /have leads put on when on lead dogs were approaching.
I never thought I’d agree with the calls for all dogs to be on lead in public areas but it’s happened.
I’m sick of off lead dogs jumping up at me, jumping all over my dogs. One if mine copes with being harassed, the 5 stone young lab is finding it increasingly difficult not to snap when being harassed.
The owners are often out of sight and you can guarantee when the owner ambles into view, s/he will shout ‘it’s ok he’s friendly”. Asked to call their dog the next guarantee is there will be no recall, so the nuisance dog continues winding up dogs who don’t want to ‘play’

I’m using an enclosed field and doing town walls to avoid this nonsense

BlueBelle

So now a policeman has been bitten by an XLBully leaving him with serious injuries I believe in happened Leicestershire while he was answering a call, when will this end ? They said they d be banned by the end of the year but it seems to have all gone very quiet
As I was coming home from town the other day there was one wandering up the road, on its own, my heart went to ice luckily it was so busy sniffing at the wall it took no notice of me as I smartly walked past (on the other side of the road)

What a scare for you! I heard the other day that they will be banned and owners have until Jan to do something about it ( not sure what tho.)
Once these dogs have been banned it would then be a good idea for all dogs to be on leads in public places.No dog should be wandering round on it’s own.

There is no perfect solution to the problem of dangerous, out of control dogs. No perfect way to identify an xl bully because they’re inter bred with other huge powerful breeds.
The 12 month old xl bully at our beginners training class is a happy pup. He’s being muzzle trained. He will be castrated but the owner is trying to delay this because that’s wise with big breeds.
I fear he’s unusual - he’s the only xl I’ve seen in any training group. The ones I see are on inappropriate harnesses and extendable leads. They’re pulling ahead of the daft lad/big burly bloke hanging on to the lead.
Alongside this difficult to enforce ban, we need investment from central government to increase legislation and inspection of anyone breeding dogs. Responsible breeders will cooperate

It’s too easy to buy a pup, often too easy to rescue from eastern/southern Europe. British rescues are strict about not placing with yiung children, unsafe gardens, people out of the house 8 hours a day, every day.

Rescue centres are going to be inundated with them. My local one is begging for someone to take one they currently have before December and someone has already asked if it would be ok to have it if they have older children. Thankfully the centre have said no it wouldn't be. But there are lots of posts saying how unfair the government are being. I don't see how they're going to get all this in place in a couple of months.

Coffrey has totally ignored every bit of information from experts that was presented at the DEFRA committee, including the fact the fact that The Breed Specific part of the Dangerous Dogs Act deals specifically with 'dogs bred for fighting' heard from David Martin, expert vet in court cases and Sam Gaines from the RSPCA that XL Bullies were categorically not bred for fighting' but as companion dogs, which calls into question the validity of adding them to the banned breed list.

The vet progression said that when trainee vets were asked 94% stated they would refuse to euthanise a healthy XL Bully if asked to. And that it was suggested that the amnesty period for registering dogs for exemption may last until 2025. Vets will not be able to accommodate the numbers of dogs needing neutering if a lengthy amnesty isn't granted

At the the time of the committee the petition asking for reconsideration of the ban had over 500k signatures, compared to just 28k on the opposing petition supporting the ban

Details of the ban due to come in force at the end of the year have now been announced

I volunteered for many years at a rescue kennels. It is very very stressful for the dogs some of which had been in kennels unwanted for years. I was bitten by a mild gentle Labrador but never bitten by a staffy or any of the large american bulldogs. It is the back street breeders non law abiding folk who dont chip their dogs, use them often in drug dealing “protection” and or in dog fighting. Status symbols. Even if dog is chipped folk just say i sold “it” down the pub or the chip has never been registered. It should be better policed by whom though?

Lol Bluebell just imagine the traditional British bulldog but bigger.
They were actually used in the breeding of the xl bully but I can't imagine why. My sons dog is a bit of a celebrity around town he is as daft as a brush loves people and attention and is extremely laid back and can be lazy & stubborn. It's no good calling him in by his name just shout pub! and he is ready for place of snacks.
If I am looking after him I get my husband to walk him not because of his size but because when he gets outside the local pub he refuses to move and its embarrassing!!

What’s an old tyme Bulldog Rosie sounds like a dance 😂

It was only a suggestion Bluebell to why there could be a delay because the xl bully is not a recognised breed so I presume the experts have got to get it as right as they can and not just rely upon what members of the public think
My son has already been stopped a few times by well meaning people who really have no idea asking if his dog is an xl bully he just sighs and answers them the best he can that his dog is a Olde Tyme Bulldog

If only Iam
I have noticed here that there are more women with these Bullies now, is it the beauty and the beast syndrome

I don’t see why fitting an actual name to the dog is a problem Rosie they need only have the appearance and the size, weight, size of head, jaws etc even huge dogs like a st Bernard’s don’t have any of the Bullies features I don’t see why it needs a name anything with the head circumference, jaw circumference, open mouth size (their mouths are like the dartford tunnel) weight and size have to follow the muzzling, lead at all times etc etc rules or they are put down
I don’t think any other breeds would fit that description at all so they wouldn’t be muddled up with a German shepherd or a Lab or any other medium to large dog

MayBee70 - wouldn’t it be good if every one who gets a pup/rescue had to attend Kennel Club Good Citizen training groups. It would teach owners that dogs don’t need to greet every random dog/person they meet. That if yiu see an on lead dog, you put your dog on lead. That you never allow your dog out of sight and never have a dog off lead that doesn’t return when you call it.
Simple, basic good ownership messages that are being lost

It’s probably gone quiet because they are trying to work out parameters for what dog is actually an Xl bully.

So now a policeman has been bitten by an XLBully leaving him with serious injuries I believe in happened Leicestershire while he was answering a call, when will this end ? They said they d be banned by the end of the year but it seems to have all gone very quiet
As I was coming home from town the other day there was one wandering up the road, on its own, my heart went to ice luckily it was so busy sniffing at the wall it took no notice of me as I smartly walked past (on the other side of the road)

I think it’s against the law for a dog not to have a disc with its address on its collar along with having to be chipped. But I doubt if many dog owners know that. Just as many dog owners don’t know that it’s against the law for a dog to travel in a car unrestrained. I only know that because I was told at training classes.

Chakotay, good points about the complexity involved.

This growing trend for breed specific meetings is another Bad Idea. Far too many dogs who have nothing in common other than being doodles, beagles, spaniels etc. these meets often happen at the weekend, the busiest time for our resevoir walks. They block the paths, dogs get over excited and lost. Madness

In New Zealand we have dog licences and the dog must wear the tag showing its licence number. There is a $500 fine if found without the tag more than once. Dogs are impounded if out and about alone. They must be on a lead if not in a dog park. They can run free on some beaches in the winter. Muzzles are not required but perhaps should be for large dogs.

The rules which will most likely be in place will be neutering, wearing a muzzle in a public place, insurance and being on lead cannot all be implemented immediately, for instance even vets are not sure what age a dog can safety be neutered the age will have to be part of the new rules, some xls will still be puppies when any new rules come in so may be too young, you cant just shove a muzzle on a dog there has to be training to get them used to it, xl owners are already signing up for courses on this, insurance will be a problem Dogs Trust are insuring bullies at the moment but may stop doing so depending on the new rules, of course all dogs should be on leads even in dog friendly areas not just bullies my Pug was almost killed by an off lead Husky.

Implementation will be a key issue, you can't just add another type to current BSL as it has not worked since it it first became law in 1991, Battersea, the RSPCA, The Dogs Trust, the RVA and other organisations have said the same it does not work and does not reduce dog attacks, the way it is done is so random as to be laughable, just recently two dogs brothers from the same litter were seized under BSL and assessed which means just a tape measure, DNA is not permitted to be used in assessments temperament and character only make up 10%, one dog was assessed as a pit bull type and destroyed and the other was exempted, the whole thing is a farce, not all bullies look like the ones the press churn out with every news item, the mean looking ones with bandy legs, huge muscles, mean eyes and cropped ears, that tends to be the exotic bully one of variants but a lot look nothing like them, a friend has a boxer/staffy cross and people think that is a bully so with only a tape measure and no DNA evidence allowed dogs like that could be destroyed under current BSL.

Yes there is a worrying trend but for every XL attack reported 100s of other dog attacks are ignored, for instance an xl got out in my local area, it scared a lot of people but didn't actually bite anyone, my local paper was full of it, yet on the same day there was a mass golden retriever beach walk, there were numerous fights, 4 people were bitten one ended up in hospital yet it didn't even get a mention.

, but I’m talking about the thousands of people who have out of control dogs scaring or harassing others, not necessarily killing anyone

I’m the owner of two dogs, I’ve had 3 in the past, sometimes my own 3, usually my 2 and a rescue/foster dog. I’m absolutely sick of out of control, no recall, off lead dogs harassing my gentle bomb proof spaniel, or winding up my young strong, occasionally reactive huge lab. My attempts to train him are hampered by idiots. Some are owners with no idea. Many are ‘professional dog walkers’ with no idea. They’re collecting 15-20 £ an our for ‘walking’ bored packs who spend 8-10 hours a day locked in a house

Apologies, I’ve no quick fixes but I do have some suggestions

Callistemon21

^It's utterly depressing hearing all these stories. How will we ever be safe from these selfish and aggressive owners?^
By charging, trying and imprisoning them.
One man has been arrested on suspicion of murder after his XLBully dog killed someone recently.

Yes the owner should be charged and punished when someone is seriously bitten or killed, but I'm talking about the thousands of people who have out of control dogs scaring or harassing others, not necessarily killing anyone. We all want these dogs to be controlled but who is there to enforce the rules when they're not? This is happening all the time everywhere.