Another death by an XL Bully

We have a spaniel and 3 mini sausage dogs, I would not be comfortable muzzling any of them ! They are always on leads, unless in dog friendly parks AND no one else is there, dogs do need to let off their leads and many of us have relatively small gardens. We always put our dogs back on their leads if we do encounter people out whilst working. At 64 I’ve had dogs my entire life, not one of our dogs has EVER bitten anyone and I hope they never do. In our home we have NEVER left our dogs alone with any children, even our own, & if we have nervous visitors the dogs are out away in another room. It’s about being responsible and training both your dogs and your children

We live in a very dog friendly area (Cotswolds) loads of dogs off the lead in park and woods and no one has EVER turned ‘funny’ when I say mine are harmless. Indeed they are welcomed (and often given treats which I do not like) we have 3 Goldies and a bichon frise. The latter is inherited and although I love him not my choice. He is too small to be a major threat and is gentle anyway. Golden retrievers are a daft breed but they are big and I have heard one or two stories about examples who were aggressive. I have an autistic son at home and grandchildren. Any dog is a threat and a big dog can be a threat to life. So all our Goldies come from a local breeder. She has the bitch (an honourable word never to be applied to nasty human females!) and the sire - a magnificent beast! We get photos of the pups from birth and see them as soon as it’s safe. There is no doubt about care security, health and pedigree. I would not have it any other way and would still never leave a small child alone with any of my dogs. A dog is a dog. I don’t agree with muzzling my dogs would hate it and the people it’s aimed at wouldn’t muzzle anyway. So what’s the answer? Same as to so many things. Loads more properly trained police. Murder charge if your dog kills. Stiff prison sentence and swingeing fine if your dog harms. Police powers to confiscate dogs deemed risky followed by gene test and euthanasia for harmful dogs. In short more funds and investment- not much different from just about everything in this country now!

A young family member of mine has an XL Bully bought for them as a pup by their mother. The dog has never attacked anyone but I am nervous. It visited me once a couple of years ago and barked consistently at my husband. Apparently it was nervous of men. Since then a man looked after the dog for a time while it's owner was looking for a new home, so I think the dog has become more used to men. But twice the dog pulled him over when it was on a lead and he cracked a rib. This is because the dog is so strong a grown man cannot hold it. The mother looked after it for a night and she had to separate it from her Belgium shepherd because she thought a play fight could develop into a real fight and her dog would not back down and would lose. A Belgium Shepherd is a very strong dog itself. I have lived with a Pyrenean Mountain dog which is like a small pony. She was a sweet dog and I was never afraid of her. So I can understand these owners who say their XL bullies are good natured and friendly. But I would feel more relaxed now if this dog was muzzled if it came to visit. I have read they must be trained to accept a muzzle. I do love my family member and they love their dog.

I desperately want something done, and fast, still I can't imagine that a ban will work - can anyone? Who, exactly, is going to police and enforce this ban?

We don't have enough police, anyway, do we, after years of Tory cuts?

As examples, here we have a 20 mph limit (near the primary school) and double yellow lines around/near corners. The council bylaws include 'dogs must be kept on leads on pavements' - and out of children's play areas. All these 'rules', and others, are totally ignored by the vast majority - so, tell me, what's the point?

If a type of car had a fault that meant it suddenly veered left or right without warning (I'm no engineer, but if cars can park themselves and their computer system went haywire I imagine it could happen), that vehicle would be immediately withdrawn and adjustments would be made or it wouldn't be allowed back on the road!

Similarly, if a man with a knife or gun (also capable of killing or maiming) was walking in the park or woods we would insist they were stopped immediately (even if it meant firearms police shooting them). They may insist that they were only carrying the gun to shoot vermin - but would anyone approach them or stop and ask for a licence whilst their children or grandchildren were present? I doubt it.

There is no sense in passing a law that these dogs need to be muzzled when we all know it is impossible to police that.

I hate to tar every dog with the same brush, but sadly there have been enough serious incidents to demonstrate that these big dogs should be considered as potential weapons and much as I love animals, I regret to say they should be banished from our country. Someone needs to take a hard line and it needs to be done now. How about it Mr Sunak?

A simple rule - any dog with jaws wider than my hand should be kept leashed and muzzed in the interim. All breeds, as that style of dogs with huge heads and vice-like jaws are designed to fight and kill.

Any seen out without a leash can be shot on sight. Sorry, it's not the dogs' fault but the owners know what they are doing.

The flaw in the original Dangerous Dogs Act was the idea that there are measurable genetic differences between breeds. There is no special DNA for any breed, dogs are dogs. Breed specialists just have a load of criteria and measurements that fit a type.

There is no mistaking an XLBully. They are 45k of muscle and power, with the ingrown gene to attack anything smaller than itself.
An American lady was on GMB with a bully that she insisted was completely trustworthy because she had trained it yet she visibly had difficulty controlling it on air.
She said she has exported hundreds of puppies to Britain.
Surely stopping the importing of these hideous dogs would at least cut down the numbers. Also spay all this type of dog. Vets will be aware of any puppy being brought in for vaccines etc and can inform the authorities if it’s existence.
I’m all for dogs being on lead in public places. I have a small sheepdog who has been to training class but is always on the lead. She is very friendly to people and children and most dogs but both myself and her are sick of the off lead Labrador sized dogs that come bounding up with the owner shouting, he/she only wants to make friends while his 35k dog is jumping all over my 8k dog.
Some people should never own dogs.

I agree with you. The trouble is, some of these tragedies are happening in the home, or the dogs escaping from homes that aren't properly secure. It's terrifying.

Chestnut

BlueBelle

So what do you suggest Chestnut there needs to be some answers fast

I never said I had an answer, just wondering how muzzling can be enforced when many of these owners are drug dealers and unlikely to co-operate. Most owners might muzzle them, but the bad owners are the ones with the most dangerous dogs, and how on earth do we get muzzles on those monsters?

The dogs or the owner.?

At very least these dogs should not be in a public space without a muzzle and a strong lead. Now!

A toddler was attacked on Monday by an XL Bully in Greenwich. The little boy was with his mum. Fortunately it’s not life threatening, but nasty bites with blood pouring from his legs, poor little lad. The owner has been charged with having a dangerously out of control dog.

Tired of hearing people claim their dog would never harm anyone. I kept my children well away from my mother's Cairn terrier when they were small, even though old and friendly because ANY dog will attack if feeling cornered or threatened

All dogs whatever breed, whether placid or not should be muzzled when out in the community. It would protect people and other animals from injury or death.

I understand from a vet friend that there is a gene that, should the dog have it, that dog is prone to seemingly out of the blue rage attacks, and the xl bully breed suffers particularly from that as one very prolific sire called Killer Kimbo had that gene, and many dogs around today are descended from him many times over. Not the only breed that often has that gene but in other breeds any intact animal whose offspring showed signs of sudden rage would not be veed from again, nir any of the offspring, apparently there wwre some Labrador retrievers who descended from one dog who had it, and there was no more breeding. Responsible breeders won't breed from dogs who have traits like this or other genetic problems, eg PRA, which causes progressive blindness, if a dog is a carrier a responsible breeder will test for it and if he carries that gene will not breed from him
Against this there are breeders who breed xl bully dogs for looks, massiveness a s suchlike, who accept aggression as a part of what a fighting dog does
So many of these stories are to involve a sudden unprovoked attack by a dog who has been ok until now
Some are no doubt owned inappropriately, ie the dog is not exercised enough or is passed on from someone else, and is not really a happy dog, some that do not come out of the blue can be people not recognizing the signs that a dog is getting irritated, and try and stop the dog growling, or doing that thing they do lifting their lip to show their teeth, both signals from the dog to back off because they need some space, so the dog feels like it has to show its feelings in another way
Plus they are very big and .muscley and a small child is half the size, if someone is sitting down their face is attack height. A friend who lives in London said that some people keep an aggressive dog as it's not illegal as carrying a knife is
Nobody needs a huge musclebound dog bees for fighting, breeding should stop, all such dogs should be neutered, and importation of that sort of dog banned, which yes is not easy, and we can't tell other countries what to do but we can tell them we don't want potential killers coming in
But that doesn't address the immediate problem. I've no doubt that some are big softies but how so you tell if yours is one that has tendencies to fly into a sudden unprovoked rage until.it is too late

Questions need to be asked about the owners of these dogs? Why does anyone want a dog breed for fighting and possible killing ? Not for a family pet surely? They are being used by people as weapons/tools to assist either in illegal operations or for intimidation purposes. It is not necessarily the dogs' fault, ban this 'breed' and unfortunately these people with develop something else.

Why not make it that all dogs should be leashed on a lead no more than 2 m in a public place including parks etc . I have had many a small dog run up to mine on one of those extendable leads with the owner miles behind oblivious of what it’s doing

Some years ago 2 Labradors killed my friends pet goat. The goat was on a lead, the labs weren’t.

52Primrose53

People may remember several weeks ago I posted about a woman who has bought a Cane Corso dog which can grow up to 45 kg, is fiercely protective and is stronger than a rotweiller and much bigger than an XL bully.

The woman lives in a tiny rented house with a tiny garden and is very small herself and we very much doubt that if the dog went for someone she would not be able to hold it back.

I have reported our concerns to the housing association and the local council now so hoping they will at least check it out because this is an area with several young families with kids and I could not bear for a tragedy to happen and the council saying they had no idea there was such a huge dog living there.

I do remember your previous post, and was horrified that a Cane Corso was owned in those conditions, completely irresponsible of the owner and wherever she got it from. I have dogs myself (standard poodles) and often avoid people who are quite obviously either unable, or not interested, in controlling their dogs.

Well done for reporting it.

There’s been a row locally about whether dogs should be allowed into a children’s play park. To me, it’s a non-question. It’s a children’s play park, not a dog park. But apparently, ‘it’s people’s rights’ to have their dogs in there.

As I’ve said before on here, I’ve had dogs myself and in general I like dogs but nowadays owners seem to think their dog comes first. So many are allowed to do what they want and I am wary of going anywhere near a dog, especially if I have grandchildren with me, because it’s impossible to tell at a glance the well-behaved dog from an undisciplined one.

Even the Bidens don’t show much responsibility - their dog has been allowed to bite eleven people before being removed. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67015811

There is only one way to solve this and that is to make breeding dogs (and cats) strictly licensed. Owners should be made by law to neuter, insure and train their animals. There will be a cost to it but that should cover the policing of it. Any dog can kill in the right circumstances, a baby was killed by a Jack Russell but there’s no calls to ban them. And let’s not forget that it’s not the dogs that are the problem here, it’s the breeders and owners who are at fault. And it’s them that need to be taken to task. The sooner that happens the better.

I remember your post Primrose. You’ve absolutely done the right thing.

Chestnut

I was just wondering who is going to challenge some moron out walking his XL Bully which isn't muzzled? In other words, how can muzzling be enforced?

No sensible person would challenge a dog owner in these circumstances, but if a law is passed stating that these or any other dog must be muzzled at all times, then the law should also include a clear injunction that can anyone not immediately muzzle the dog when told to by police, they risk the dog being shot by a policeman immediately

Most of the owners of xlbullies know exactly how to train them..they are trained as weapons..status attack dogs. I despair of people who say other dogs attack..yes but they are not huge heavy dogs who can kill. Ban them now. Who doesn't recognise an xlbully..it doesn't take a genius!

The muzzling could be brought in tomorrow while they are piddling around working out the breed which they may never sort out, so what then, just leave it as it is ?

👏👏👏 Totally agree. I really don’t understand why muzzling isn’t enforced immediately!

Divi - this country does not value dogs more than people.