What is meant by multiculturalism?

I'm assuming this thread was brought up because of your Home Secretary's speech recently. Let me know if I'm wrong.

Our Multiculturism Act, made into law in 1988 preserves and enhances cultural diversity. But of course laws are written at a static point in time, and countries are always changing, and immigration has changed. What was once a country of mostly British and European immigrants now has large populations from the far East and Asia.

If I were to immigrate to the UK, I wouldn't stand out as being from a different culture, but I would still take time to adjust. But if 20,000 Canadians immigrated and centred themselves in one area of your country, started turning cricket fields to hockey arenas, and wanted to drive on the 'right side' of the road in our neighbourhood, I'm sure many of you would object. You would expect us to assimilate to your culture.

I think governments need to have a good look at their policies, which must constantly be fluid, to accommodate the new incomers. To celebrate diversity while protecting the original culture of the country.

For instance, we have one area of Vancouver that had a large influx of immigrants from China in the 1990's. Many businesses had opened with Chinese only signage, and some residents had objected. Surprisingly, the bylaws of the city regulated how large your sign should be, and if you need a permit, but it didn't say anything about which language your sign should be. It wasn't until just a few years ago that the bylaw was changed to regulate that 50% of the sign should be in English.

This is just an example of governments, both local and national having to adjust to an ever changing population. We can never stay static, and it's a tough balance to get right.

Katie59

Oh I don’t mind them continuing their good cultural practices, it’s the many bad ones that don’t met our standards that I object to

What are they?

Oh I don’t mind them continuing their good cultural practices, it’s the many bad ones that don’t met our standards that I object to

Witzend nowhere have I suggested that the crimes that you have described as "cultural" don't exist, having worked with a number of the ethnic groups that make up the UK's diverse society, I am very well aware that unpleasant illegal things take place but they are not cultural norms and communities should not be stereotyped in this way. Forced marriages, FMG, the grooming of vulnerable girls etc must be called out for what they are ie illegal abusive acts rather than described as "cultural", that is the way you educate people about what is acceptable or not.
Katie59 I do celebrate diversity.
You said in your post, "Individual rights, women’s right and class discrimination, many of those cultures are now established in the UK, in many cases they have not integrated, while retaining their cultural practices."
For generations people have settled here from other countries and contributed to our prosperity, surely the degree to which they "integrate" should be their choice as long as they adhere to our laws and why they shouldn't maintain their own cultures? If English culture is (as some suggest) The Chelsea Flower Show, Wimbledon, The Boat Race etc, I'm not surprised they don't want to integrate. I don't want to either! It worries me very much that whenever there is discussion about the different ethnic groups that make up the UK, the talk is always about forced marriage, FMG, Rotherham etc, never about the very many good things that make up different cultures and the contribution that they make to our society. Is it racism or is it just thoughtless stereotyping? fwiw, scratch the surface of any culture and you will find vile people who do vile things and we are no different, the difference is that we don't describe them as "cultural" if they are white British.

Having travelled widely and seen many cultures “at home” what seems attractive on the surface is often very repressive under the surface.
Individual rights, women’s right and class discrimination, many of those cultures are now established in the UK, in many cases they have not integrated, while retaining their cultural practices. Some applaud the diversity, to those I say scratch below the surface and think would I accept that culture as mine.

Parsley3

^You'd better ask the Scots if they feel wearing kilts and blowing bagpipes is a 'stereotype and a negative way of viewing them'. 🙄^
I am a Scot and yes it is.

That's very sad. Don't you still have the Highland Games and lots of other events involving kilts and bagpipes. They were a favourite of the Queen and I think most people appreciated the bagpipes being played at her funeral. There's nothing negative about them.

You'd better ask the Scots if they feel wearing kilts and blowing bagpipes is a 'stereotype and a negative way of viewing them'. 🙄
I am a Scot and yes it is.

Chestnut Many of the items listed are perhaps outdated. It may be because I was a teenage/young adult during the 60s I found Morris Dancing and that other folky stuff rather boring and still do.

I invited some French friends to afternoon tea recently and made scones (for the first time in 20 odd years) and served them with butter, jam and creme fraiche. They loved them.
As often happens with scones we talked about topping goes first and one lady reminisced about clotted cream which she ate when she lived in England.

I agree with Chestnut. Absolutely right.

Witzend

foxie48

Witzend

The trouble is, to many people IMO it’s meant turning an official blind eye (for fear of accusations of racism) to cultural practices like forced marriages of very young girls and FGM.
Not to mention all the Rotherham grooming business.

Everything that you have mentioned is illegal, forced marriage is forbidden under Islam and is illegal in pretty much every Muslim/Asian country as is FMG. They are not acceptable cultural practices by anyone's standards. The grooming gangs were not acting in a cultural way, they were evil men who prayed on vulnerable girls, the failure of the police and social services to protect these girls is a scandal and I think is clear evidence of how poorly trained they were and IMO made them as guilty as the vile perpetrators of these crimes.

Legal or not, those things still go on - it’s naive to pretend they don’t. Much as we may wish it.
And IMO the Rotherham type abuse was at least partly cultural - white girls seen as of little account, unworthy of respect.

When a dd was a student in Nottingham, she and her friends regularly had young boys who lived in the same street, no more than about 10 or 11, of Pakistani immigrant parents jeering ‘Dirty white whore!’ at them in the street.

Where did that come from, if not from the parents? Who (I should add) were almost certainly uneducated - it was a relatively poor area. I’m well aware that educated attitudes will be different.

This week marks a watershed moment in a decade of discussion of “grooming gangs”: a much-anticipated Home Office report has concluded that there is no credible evidence that any one ethnic group is over-represented in cases of child sexual exploitation.

www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2020/dec/analysis-new-home-office-report-admits-grooming-gangs-are-not-muslim-problem

foxie48

Witzend

The trouble is, to many people IMO it’s meant turning an official blind eye (for fear of accusations of racism) to cultural practices like forced marriages of very young girls and FGM.
Not to mention all the Rotherham grooming business.

Everything that you have mentioned is illegal, forced marriage is forbidden under Islam and is illegal in pretty much every Muslim/Asian country as is FMG. They are not acceptable cultural practices by anyone's standards. The grooming gangs were not acting in a cultural way, they were evil men who prayed on vulnerable girls, the failure of the police and social services to protect these girls is a scandal and I think is clear evidence of how poorly trained they were and IMO made them as guilty as the vile perpetrators of these crimes.

Legal or not, those things still go on - it’s naive to pretend they don’t. Much as we may wish it.
And IMO the Rotherham type abuse was at least partly cultural - white girls seen as of little account, unworthy of respect.

When a dd was a student in Nottingham, she and her friends regularly had young boys who lived in the same street, no more than about 10 or 11, of Pakistani immigrant parents jeering ‘Dirty white whore!’ at them in the street.

Where did that come from, if not from the parents? Who (I should add) were almost certainly uneducated - it was a relatively poor area. I’m well aware that educated attitudes will be different.

You forgot 'elderly ladies cycling to church in the morning mist', Chestnut

Chestnut

foxie48

Chestnut

Katie59

It means whatever you want it to mean in positive or negative way. To many is a welcome variety of culture to other it’s a threat to the British culture.

It's a threat to all cultures. I love that each country has (or had) its own identity, food, costumes and ethnicity. It makes them all unique to visit and study. I think it's tragic that this is all slowly being lost as vast numbers of people migrate and mingle. It particularly affects the west as that is where everyone seems to be heading.

Can you give me a brief run down of what British culture is, or to narrow it down a bit, English culture?

Just a quick list off the top of my head of what English culture is, Sunday afternoon cricket matches, tea and scones, village fetes and carnivals with a carnival queen, Morris dancing, traditional English folk songs, cheese rolling and many other quirky local customs (too many to list), Chelsea Flower Show, Chelsea Pensioners, Beefeaters, London Buses, taxis, phone boxes and letter boxes, Epson Darby, Henley Regatta, Wimbledon Tennis, The Boat Race. I could go on but I'm sure you know all this anyway.

How does multiculturalism dilute or affect any of these things? It's an honest question. I'm white, British born in a Midland city and very English. Pretty much everything you have listed would be part of Tatler's social season, the only person I know who has been to most of these events is my SIL, who is very well connected and rather wealthy. I, of course, have sat on a London bus, made a phone call, posted a letter and travelled in a black cab but so have thousands of non white English people.

How many people have experienced the above over the last year?

I've been on a bus and posted a letter, but that's it. I would imagine I could do those things in most countries in the world.

foxie48

Chestnut

Katie59

It means whatever you want it to mean in positive or negative way. To many is a welcome variety of culture to other it’s a threat to the British culture.

It's a threat to all cultures. I love that each country has (or had) its own identity, food, costumes and ethnicity. It makes them all unique to visit and study. I think it's tragic that this is all slowly being lost as vast numbers of people migrate and mingle. It particularly affects the west as that is where everyone seems to be heading.

Can you give me a brief run down of what British culture is, or to narrow it down a bit, English culture?

Just a quick list off the top of my head of what English culture is, Sunday afternoon cricket matches, tea and scones, village fetes and carnivals with a carnival queen, Morris dancing, traditional English folk songs, cheese rolling and many other quirky local customs (too many to list), Chelsea Flower Show, Chelsea Pensioners, Beefeaters, London Buses, taxis, phone boxes and letter boxes, Epson Darby, Henley Regatta, Wimbledon Tennis, The Boat Race. I could go on but I'm sure you know all this anyway.

Witzend

The trouble is, to many people IMO it’s meant turning an official blind eye (for fear of accusations of racism) to cultural practices like forced marriages of very young girls and FGM.
Not to mention all the Rotherham grooming business.

Everything that you have mentioned is illegal, forced marriage is forbidden under Islam and is illegal in pretty much every Muslim/Asian country as is FMG. They are not acceptable cultural practices by anyone's standards. The grooming gangs were not acting in a cultural way, they were evil men who prayed on vulnerable girls, the failure of the police and social services to protect these girls is a scandal and I think is clear evidence of how poorly trained they were and IMO made them as guilty as the vile perpetrators of these crimes.

Parsley3

^It's a threat to all cultures. I love that each country has (or had) its own identity, food, costumes and ethnicity. It makes them all unique to visit and study. I think it's tragic that this is all slowly being lost as vast numbers of people migrate and mingle. It particularly affects the west as that is where everyone seems to be heading.^
Do you mean Scots in kilts, Germans in lederhosen, Mexicans in sombreros etc, etc? I think you will find that is stereotyping which is quite a negative way of viewing people.

You'd better ask the Scots if they feel wearing kilts and blowing bagpipes is a 'stereotype and a negative way of viewing them'. 🙄

Chestnut

Katie59

It means whatever you want it to mean in positive or negative way. To many is a welcome variety of culture to other it’s a threat to the British culture.

It's a threat to all cultures. I love that each country has (or had) its own identity, food, costumes and ethnicity. It makes them all unique to visit and study. I think it's tragic that this is all slowly being lost as vast numbers of people migrate and mingle. It particularly affects the west as that is where everyone seems to be heading.

Can you give me a brief run down of what British culture is, or to narrow it down a bit, English culture?

In simple terms multiculturalism is a recognition that society is not a monoculture, ie consists of different cultural and racial groups but in practice, I think it refers to the structural changes that are or are not made to ensure that the individual needs of different groups are met fairly and equally. It's of interest that despite MPs being much more representative of the UK's population, the road to success in politics is still paved with "white values" ie remains ethnocentric. Has "multiculturalism" failed? Suella seems to think it has and she is at the heart of the UK govt. I think the real question is, have we ever actually tried it?

It's a threat to all cultures. I love that each country has (or had) its own identity, food, costumes and ethnicity. It makes them all unique to visit and study. I think it's tragic that this is all slowly being lost as vast numbers of people migrate and mingle. It particularly affects the west as that is where everyone seems to be heading.
Do you mean Scots in kilts, Germans in lederhosen, Mexicans in sombreros etc, etc? I think you will find that is stereotyping which is quite a negative way of viewing people.

Katie59

It means whatever you want it to mean in positive or negative way. To many is a welcome variety of culture to other it’s a threat to the British culture.

It's a threat to all cultures. I love that each country has (or had) its own identity, food, costumes and ethnicity. It makes them all unique to visit and study. I think it's tragic that this is all slowly being lost as vast numbers of people migrate and mingle. It particularly affects the west as that is where everyone seems to be heading.

The trouble is, to many people IMO it’s meant turning an official blind eye (for fear of accusations of racism) to cultural practices like forced marriages of very young girls and FGM.
Not to mention all the Rotherham grooming business.

Katie59

It means whatever you want it to mean in positive or negative way. To many is a welcome variety of culture to other it’s a threat to the British culture.

I think that we can now scrap the notion that it means anything but a threat. A senior politician has been loudly applauded for announcing that it doesn't work and heads are nodding in agreement. And not a single example of where it doesn't work to back up the claim. It looks like a vote winner though so well done Braverman.

Katie59

It means whatever you want it to mean in positive or negative way. To many is a welcome variety of culture to other it’s a threat to the British culture.

I think you have to look further than the U.K. Katie59

The world is becoming multicultural, on the whole it works, as when people relocate they bring their traditions and heritage with them.

All countries have a rich individual cultural identity, it would be shameful if these got lost along the way.

It means whatever you want it to mean in positive or negative way. To many is a welcome variety of culture to other it’s a threat to the British culture.