Sunak. Men are men and women are women.

It might help if some people stopped blaming transpeople for the actions of predatory and abusive men because such men are not only a danger to natal women they prey on the vulnerable of any gender.

LovesBach

Glorianny

LovesBach

Keir Starmer told Rosie Duffield she was wrong to say that only women have a cervix. I was tempted to email him to ask where he keeps his. As we are far more tolerant today than in the past, surely it is possible for a person to tell friends and family that they want to use a different name, and dress differently, and then just get on with it. Why do we have to endure the complete nonsense of suggesting that there are many different sexes? Have these people not heard of chromosomes? Two sets are available - male and female.

Some transmen and non-binary people have cervixes. Are you saying they have to be called women? Because they don't want to be.

Where have I said they must be called women? I reiterate, people should be allowed to live as they wish, call themselves whatever they wish, and be left in peace to do so. At no point have I said those with a cervix must be called women - please read what I actually posted.

You apparently think only women have cervixes and agree with Rosie Duffield. You are therefore either denying that transmen and non-binary people may have cervixes or you are insisting they are women. Either that or you have to admit that Rosie Duffield was wrong and it isn't just women who have cervixes. You can't have it both ways.

oh bella23 I'm sorry

I'm also sorry I have missed several pages again, apologies to all

Hetty58 there are gender based rights though with respect to health and care and those need to be considered carefully.

Also, I was actually in the lingerie department at a well known retailer recently where a manager was called to remove a serial offender from trying to enter the lingerie changing facilities, so lets not pretend this stuff doesn't happen as I hardly go out

Glorianny

So what does he want people to do? Demand to see evidence of someone's sex before admitting them? I must say at all the events I have attended to celebrate and promote women's causes no one has ever asked to see proof I am a woman and I hope they never do.
Be very careful the far right have set out their agenda- pick off the obvious first-trans people- then work on the rest. Only the hetero-normal family will be permitted. It's happening in Europe irr.org.uk/article/feminism-biological-fundamentalism-attack-on-trans-rights/

I think it's women's rights being trampled on by the trans activists, from what I've seen . Vicious, nasty people.

I agree. Keep saying it Doodledog.

Until you are confronted by a man changing to dress like as a woman streetwalker in the ladies' loos in a busy hospital where elderly ladies are struggling with Zimmer frames because of cramped conditions. You will never know what your feelings are.
I was and it certainly changed any" live and let live", attitude I might have had. He dared to use the ladies but did not dare to use the Mens which was right next door. One final comment, why did he feel it was safe in the ladies?

I also agree with LovesBach. People should be able to live as they wish, call themselves whatever they wish and be left in peace to do so, so long as they are not making life difficult for others in the process.

That is when I lose patience - when one person's 'living as he wishes' means that other people (ie women) are unable to have privacy and dignity in places where traditionally we could be sure we would be out of the male gaze, and where their presence means that women from some religious groups are excluded.

As long as transwomen understand that they are not women and respect the wishes of those who are - basically leaving us in peace - there should be no reason why we can't all rub along well. I don't know how anyone really believing they are a woman wouldn't understand that self-id has meant that there is a threat from dangerous men piggy-backing on that by claiming to be trans and gaining entry to women's spaces. Of course it is true that the vast majority of transwomen wouldn't do anything of the kind, but if even one woman is raped or killed by an impersonator, or because it is too difficult for people to challenge an imposter, it is one too many.

Before I am accused of excluding transmen, AFAIK there are few, if any, instances of women claiming to 'identify' as men for nefarious purposes, so they don't cause the problems that concern me.

Glorianny

LovesBach

Keir Starmer told Rosie Duffield she was wrong to say that only women have a cervix. I was tempted to email him to ask where he keeps his. As we are far more tolerant today than in the past, surely it is possible for a person to tell friends and family that they want to use a different name, and dress differently, and then just get on with it. Why do we have to endure the complete nonsense of suggesting that there are many different sexes? Have these people not heard of chromosomes? Two sets are available - male and female.

Some transmen and non-binary people have cervixes. Are you saying they have to be called women? Because they don't want to be.

Where have I said they must be called women? I reiterate, people should be allowed to live as they wish, call themselves whatever they wish, and be left in peace to do so. At no point have I said those with a cervix must be called women - please read what I actually posted.

I agree with both CoolCoco and Galaxy.

Neither Labour nor the Tories have covered themselves in glory over this, and their behaviour is disappointing on so many levels. All the same, the only way to hope to drag the country out of the mess we are in is to get the Tories out, so I will vote for Labour - I see no alternative. I won’t forget though, and I am still unsure of Keir’s meaning when he uses the term ‘woman’. What are ‘women’s spaces’ if being a woman is a matter of ‘identity’ rather than biology? I’d like him to clear that up with no ambiguity (apologies if he has done so already and I missed it).

Galaxy, I think you’re right about strategy. Faced with a group of TW/TRA I suspect he would back down and reiterate his 99.9%.

As a member of the labour party I am fully aware of Starmers changing position on this, he has been deeply disappointing on the issue and has only arrived at his current position very recently. His position has not been drowned out by hysteria it has been observed by women for years. This wont impact my vote but to pretend he hasnt just realised that his previous strategy wasnt a vote winner is inaccurate. He is I am afraid playing a similar game to the Tories. Neither cared about womens rights throughout this debate.

As long as men aren’t invading women’s safe spaces or trying to join in with women’s sports then it’s doesn’t matter if they call themselves Arthur or Martha does it? Let them get on with it. If they think they are women then they have a psychological problem.

G&T
Some transmen and non-binary people have cervixes. Are you saying they have to be called women? Because they don't want to be.
They don’t have to be called women.
I don’t walk around saying call me a woman or I am a woman, I just am.
If they are female, they are female and if they are male they are male, whatever they call themselves. And if they are malethen stop using TW or NB to lie about being a woman and stay out of female spaces, competitions etc.
The blame for this state of affairs lies with TW, TRA and their supporters.

JenniferEccles

Of course Rishi was stating the obvious but it’s a sad state of affairs that it needed to be said at all.

Only a few years ago, MPs at the conference, and in fact everyone who heard what he said would have looked at one another in complete bewilderment wouldn’t they, astonished as to why an obvious biological fact was stated at a Party conference.

Now though, because of a tiny minority of vociferous disruptive individuals who insisted that we can be anything we say we are, it was deemed necessary for the PM to clearly state the facts.

The majority of the population of course know that fact but nevertheless would doubtless have been cheered to hear that our PM is not pussyfooting around this issue.

Good for him.

All told I think it was a good conference. There were some difficult decisions to have been made certainly but I feel the decision on HS2 was the right one. I also applauded Suella Braverman.

I do hope that most people don’t agree with your simplistic comments. Who can applaud Braverman ? Crazy Trumpistic talk. I thought Britain had more sense. Transphobic comments reign here and that is appalling. Had any GN er ever talked or watched commentary on what is left ke to be transgender?

Thank you lovetopaint037! The voice of compassion. Live and let live. The world is so full of people who are struggling to get by for one reason or another. If it doesn’t harm
me - then let them be themselves. I go in a changing room for both sexes in Asda and I don’t feel threatened by the bloke trying on trousers next door, nor would I of it it was a trans woman. As an old friend once said to me ‘breathe in the hate, breathe out the love ‘

LovesBach

Keir Starmer told Rosie Duffield she was wrong to say that only women have a cervix. I was tempted to email him to ask where he keeps his. As we are far more tolerant today than in the past, surely it is possible for a person to tell friends and family that they want to use a different name, and dress differently, and then just get on with it. Why do we have to endure the complete nonsense of suggesting that there are many different sexes? Have these people not heard of chromosomes? Two sets are available - male and female.

Some transmen and non-binary people have cervixes. Are you saying they have to be called women? Because they don't want to be.

Elegran

A swimming pool near me has a communal women's changing room - or it did on the one occasion I went there, some years ago. The lockers were arranged to form a series of smaller areas, so it was possible to find a corner that wasn't in direct view of the few other women who were changing, but if it had been busier that would not have been possible.

A swimming pool is a place where it is impossible NOT to be naked at one point in the changing process.

I believe most of these communal changing rooms have been altered because people do not like them. I wouldn't use a pool with such facilities because I don't want to be naked in front of anyone.

Whitewavemark Thank you - I am grateful.

It comes after the Labour leader said earlier this year that 99.9% of women “of course haven’t got a penis”.
He just can’t bring himself to tell the truth can he?

LovesBach

Keir Starmer told Rosie Duffield she was wrong to say that only women have a cervix. I was tempted to email him to ask where he keeps his. As we are far more tolerant today than in the past, surely it is possible for a person to tell friends and family that they want to use a different name, and dress differently, and then just get on with it. Why do we have to endure the complete nonsense of suggesting that there are many different sexes? Have these people not heard of chromosomes? Two sets are available - male and female.

That was in 2021, but as the issue has evolved Starmer has progressed his approach to the whole issue. (as have I) .

Your post of out of date.

I went into a mixed sex hospital ward some years ago (long before this issue), and everyone was uncomfortable. That was why Blair promised to ban them - not sure if it ever happened though.

When is hospital, people are vulnerable and often have to do undignified stuff - bed pans, commodes, intimate examinations etc. Curtains aren't much protection!

Everyone I've ever spoken to prefers to be amongst their own biological sex when in hospital.

Let's keep bays on ward as single biological bays.

Keir Starmer told Rosie Duffield she was wrong to say that only women have a cervix. I was tempted to email him to ask where he keeps his. As we are far more tolerant today than in the past, surely it is possible for a person to tell friends and family that they want to use a different name, and dress differently, and then just get on with it. Why do we have to endure the complete nonsense of suggesting that there are many different sexes? Have these people not heard of chromosomes? Two sets are available - male and female.

Dinahmo

This is a report of a conversation with Starmer on BB Radio 5. It seems to me that he knows exactly what a woman is.

“Firstly, a woman is an adult female, so let’s clear that one up,” he said on BBC Radio 5.

Sir Keir also said he feels “very strongly” about safe spaces for women, adding that the discussion of Labour policies has “allowed us to be clear that there should be safe places, safe spaces for women, particularly in relation to violence against women”.

“Biological women who have been subjected to violence against women and girls want a safe space where they can feel . . . that they are properly supported and protected.”

The discussion of gender is a sensitive topic for political parties, as it raises questions around the ‘trans debate’, which is a publicly divisive subject.

It comes after the Labour leader said earlier this year that 99.9% of women “of course haven’t got a penis”.

He added at the time that a “very small number” of people identify as a different gender to the one they were assigned at birth.

He has also written about the whole issue, and I was impressed with his intelligent approach, without all the silliness we see written by so many.

Of course he has been drowned out by all the hysteria, but it is worth reading.

At last Sunak has said something I can agree with wholeheartedly.