Sunak. Men are men and women are women.

Who said it made him electable? I’m just pleased he spoke the truth about men being men and women being women. If that was really all it takes to get someone elected, I’m surprised other leaders can’t speak that truth.

JenniferEccles I agree with you.

Jennifer Eccles. Well said, I agree with everything in your post 100% and it is about time that the majority spoke out for the majority. A breath of fresh air

Blimey!

Of course Rishi was stating the obvious but it’s a sad state of affairs that it needed to be said at all.

Only a few years ago, MPs at the conference, and in fact everyone who heard what he said would have looked at one another in complete bewilderment wouldn’t they, astonished as to why an obvious biological fact was stated at a Party conference.

Now though, because of a tiny minority of vociferous disruptive individuals who insisted that we can be anything we say we are, it was deemed necessary for the PM to clearly state the facts.

The majority of the population of course know that fact but nevertheless would doubtless have been cheered to hear that our PM is not pussyfooting around this issue.

Good for him.

All told I think it was a good conference. There were some difficult decisions to have been made certainly but I feel the decision on HS2 was the right one. I also applauded Suella Braverman.

In most cases there is no need for someone to strip off to prove which sex they are, and if they have had skilled surgery and are taking the appropriate hormones it might not be obvious even then. "So watch what you wear cos if you are in your leathers, short haired, a bit butch, you are going to be asked to prove you are a woman. " (by Glorianny) is just baiting posters to get them angry. Glorianny is good at that. The whole jizz of someone who self-identitfies as the opposite sex without actually taking any steps to really make themselves more like one differs both from real men or real women and from people who have successfully made the transition. It is in the details, including the walk and the bearing and above all the attitude

The prat who stormed into the speed dating event for lesbians wearing skin-tight trousers over his erect male member and insisted that he was a woman and therefore shoud be included didn't need to strip off to show his credentials - they were prominently displayed. Neither do any other activists who bully their way into places where they should not be. Actions speak louder than words. Saying that they self-identify as Cleopatra wouldn't get anyone a free ride on the Pharoah's luxury barge cruising down the Nile.

If you think that this makes the Tories electable, then you are delusional.

👏👏👏

Generals=genitals

Glorianny

So what does he want people to do? Demand to see evidence of someone's sex before admitting them?

You do seem focused on people exposing their generals on demand.

It’s more likely that he wants people to be truthful about their sex without having to be asked.
I’ve seen plenty of justified posts condemning the lying in the Tory party, but if you condemn that lying, why are you happy to allow men to lie about their sex when it suits them?

Two points.

First Sunak comes out with anything that he thinks may win him votes. It just happens that he has hit on something sensible (although obvious) for once, but it does not mean that he is remotely interested in women’s issues. He isn’t.

Second
If you think that this makes the Tories electable, then you are delusional.

Doodledog

As you know, I disagree completely on a number of things Glorianny. The first being that this is a left/right split - that is ridiculously simplistic and basically wrong . Most, if not all of the more vocally realistic people I know (on this subject) are lefty feminists. Assuming that it is a ‘right wing plot’ because the Daily Mail has not cancelled journalists who have dared to criticise the trans agenda is facile - it is more that the left-wing media has been more authoritarian (and that’s if we accept that there are, in fact, left-wing media in the UK).

Also there is no need for some sort of sex police to be outside every changing room, checking everyone. It is more that if it is no longer ok for someone claiming to be a woman because he ‘identifies’ as such to go into a changing room unchallenged it will be easier for women (or shop staff) to ask someone behaving inappropriately to leave. As it is, they risk being accused of transphobia.

Yes, the extremists will say it is feminism gone mad. It suits their agenda as the trans movement is inherently misogynistic.

It’s a mess, and whilst I am pleased it is finally being discussed in more sensible terms, I think that if Sunak were not playing politics he would have nipped it in the bud long before an election is due.

So watch what you wear cos if you are in your leathers, short haired, a bit butch, you are going to be asked to prove you are a woman. Not in my world!

Not acknowledging the far right are using this issue is one of the problems. They are. It's part of a well planned ideology. You may not subscribe to that ideology but it's there.

Glorianny thank you for posting that excellent article. It is intelligent, measured and thoughtful - just what is required when considering this complex issue.

It shouldn't need to be said but we are in the midst of a culture war, those who stand up for the rights of women with what are and always were before all this began, innocuous comments, such as those expressed by JK Rowling, Graham Linehan to name but two, have been threatened with violence, demonised and no platformed by those with the most illiberal attitudes they would wish to impose on the majority.

As you know, I disagree completely on a number of things Glorianny. The first being that this is a left/right split - that is ridiculously simplistic and basically wrong . Most, if not all of the more vocally realistic people I know (on this subject) are lefty feminists. Assuming that it is a ‘right wing plot’ because the Daily Mail has not cancelled journalists who have dared to criticise the trans agenda is facile - it is more that the left-wing media has been more authoritarian (and that’s if we accept that there are, in fact, left-wing media in the UK).

Also there is no need for some sort of sex police to be outside every changing room, checking everyone. It is more that if it is no longer ok for someone claiming to be a woman because he ‘identifies’ as such to go into a changing room unchallenged it will be easier for women (or shop staff) to ask someone behaving inappropriately to leave. As it is, they risk being accused of transphobia.

Yes, the extremists will say it is feminism gone mad. It suits their agenda as the trans movement is inherently misogynistic.

It’s a mess, and whilst I am pleased it is finally being discussed in more sensible terms, I think that if Sunak were not playing politics he would have nipped it in the bud long before an election is due.

25Avalon

It’s better than Keir Starmer who doesn’t seem to know😂
Well said Rishi. It could be a vote catcher.

yes, I agree. Starmer slithers whichever way the wind blows and does not know that a woman does not have a penis.

Safe spaces are starting to be created, hospital wards for women are a very good start

Agree Glorianny. It’s happening in the US too. This populist, Trumpian right wing politics is very dangerous and actually cares little about women’s rights - look at the stance on abortion in some US states. The current Conservative Party is frightening in its ‘othering’ of anyone who doesn’t conform to its narrow parameters. I find their narrow-mindedness insulting and lazy; hopefully it will backfire on them at the GE. There’s an interesting, balanced article on the gender issue in The Financial Times: www.ft.com/content/0832548c-3750-4500-82c2-455e6f92faa7

DiamondLily

I totally agree with him. But, as I'm sure Kier Starmer also knows what a woman is, I won't be voting on this issue.🙄

I'll be voting on the cost of living, housing, the NHS, education, the state of this country etc.

But, everyone has their own views, and if people think that's the most important issue, then they might vote Tory.

Totally agree.

I think that's the first time I've heard a Tory say something that isn't a lie or a promise that won't be kept.

So what does he want people to do? Demand to see evidence of someone's sex before admitting them? I must say at all the events I have attended to celebrate and promote women's causes no one has ever asked to see proof I am a woman and I hope they never do.
Be very careful the far right have set out their agenda- pick off the obvious first-trans people- then work on the rest. Only the hetero-normal family will be permitted. It's happening in Europe irr.org.uk/article/feminism-biological-fundamentalism-attack-on-trans-rights/

I totally agree with him. But, as I'm sure Kier Starmer also knows what a woman is, I won't be voting on this issue.🙄

I'll be voting on the cost of living, housing, the NHS, education, the state of this country etc.

But, everyone has their own views, and if people think that's the most important issue, then they might vote Tory.

God help this country if people decide their vote on this issue. Shame on Sunak for so obviously grandstanding because he thinks it might win votes. He is continuing the Conservative mantra of divide and conquer. What a despicable government that openly seeks to divide its people.

That’s a vote winner for sure.
Labour absolutely useless on this issue.

It's unbelievable that Rishi needs to state the bleedin' obvious but well done for doing so.

25Avalon

It’s better than Keir Starmer who doesn’t seem to know😂
Well said Rishi. It could be a vote catcher.

It will be, unfortunately. It’s another cynical use of ‘culture wars’ to win votes.

This whole debacle has been a disaster for Labour, and we so badly need a change of leadership. It’s frightening.

vegansrock

Way too simplistic - surely what needs to be said is biological women need their safe spaces and sports etc defended but people can call themselves what they like or wear what clothes they like no problem.

Agreed, vn, but nobody is saying otherwise. Clothes and what we call ourselves don’t change our sex. This is what ‘some people’ have been saying for years now, but are shouted down for doing so. That’s all that JK Rowling said, and she has suffered untold abuse and threats.

I’m absolutely happy for people to wear what they like and use whatever name they like - just not for them to insist that it makes a ha’porth of difference to their sex.