Sunak. Men are men and women are women.

MummyJoJo62 I’m pleased that your nephew is now happy and able to be content within his body. I’m also glad that his parents were thoughtful and kind enough to support him through his journey. I have seen a family member estranged by her narrow-minded bigotted grandparent because she is transgender. So sad that some people just can’t seem to live and let live.

I tend to like or dislike people depending on what they are like eg kind caring thoughtful etc. regardless of trans, male or female. A relative told me their SIL deeply regrets having surgery to transition and 50% of other trans people they know feel the same. Sad as they can't go back after surgery.

People should dress how they wish to BUT a sorry tale of a child who was being brought up gender neutral and dressed accordingly asked her Nana if they are a girl or a boy What should the reply be I don’t know you can decide when you are older. Talk about confusing the next generation

Juicylucy

Well said Rishi

WELL SAID!!

What a lot of heartless self righteous group of old nasty grannies are on here!
My nephew was born female and from the moment she could recognise herself in a mirror she knew she should be a little boy.
He is now a happy man No longer suicidal No longer stuck in a body he loathes
How can that not be right?
Nobody bullied his parents into making them feel it was right It WAS right END OF!!
Shame on our PM worse than Thatcher!!

GrammarGrandma 👏👏👏

Well said Rishi

I'm out on a limb in this group I see but as far as I am concerned a trans woman is a woman, albeit a woman with a different life history from myself. But then so are women who have not had children or been married. There seems to be a kind of mass hysteria about mythical males who will oretend to be women in order to get into our toilets and our knickers. Do you actually know any trans women or parents of trans women? I do and I know what a hard road it is to go down.

I can't be the only person who feels like he comes across like he is agency staff and he is getting paid more than the permanent workers and doesn't really know what he is doing

polnan

I tried to read some posts here, then again, the political talk comes in, I don`t see so many things as political.. lets leave politics, left and right and just discuss..

But the thread is about Sunak saying men are men and women are women. How can that be discussed without bringing in politics? It's an election year and Sunak is the PM and leader of the Conservative party

red1

nothing like tory splitting, divide and rule, when will they realise it does not work......

Are you talking about divisions in general, or about 'gender' issues in particular? I think they have found that dividing groups has worked very well for the past 13 years - rich/poor, old/young, able bodied/disabled, working/'economically inactive', it goes on and on.

As far as the debate on this thread goes, however, it feels more and more as though the majority of the population sees through the ideology, and a shrinking minority cling to its tenets. Cynical a move as it may be, I think this is less about division than about uniting people who are otherwise tolerant and accommodating of difference but who can see the obvious dangers in what has been happening.

people rights are often political though

I tried to read some posts here, then again, the political talk comes in, I don`t see so many things as political.. lets leave politics, left and right and just discuss..

nothing like tory splitting, divide and rule, when will they realise it does not work......

That's a fair point, Bellzy. But it doesn't explain the surge in the number of people wanting to 'change sex' in the past ten years or so.

Nature plays some very cruel tricks on the human body. We see the external ones; indeed myriad TV programmes are made about people with astonishing physical difficulties.

I for one do not feel qualified to say that equally astonishing ‘tricks’ cannot occur with chromosomes.

Buttonjugs

Sunak is saying/doing anything the right/boomers/bigots want to hear. And you’re being taken in by it. He doesn’t give a flying fuck in reality he just wants votes.

Oh, I think he's just wanting votes - not just from boomers/bigots or the right though . He'll already have a lot of their votes.

And again - this is a perfect example of what I was getting at above. Frame opposition to the idea that a man can be a woman on demand as something only the old, the rabid and the bigoted. It says a lot more about the people who do it than it does about those they attack, you know.

Sunak is saying/doing anything the right/boomers/bigots want to hear. And you’re being taken in by it. He doesn’t give a flying fuck in reality he just wants votes.

Yes.

Indeed.

Glorianny I knew that you would pick up on what you see as a difference in interpretation of the word 'ideology'. It's a shame GN don't have a bookie on here - I'd be worth a fortune if I could bet on your responses.

Here's another one for you:
Ideology' is a particularly slippery term that is still widely used in sociology. Its core meaning is identified as 'a set of beliefs treated as distinctive to a particular group or category of person'. There are many other definitions. Take your pick. All the same, what I posted is a system of ideas and ideals which form the basis of a number of policies in workplaces, hospitals, prisons, schools and other areas, which fits with your own choice of definition.

When you say 'now there is nothing', what do you mean?

Yes, people are being silenced - I say it again, just because you may have had no experience of trans dictatorship when you were in the workplace does not mean that it is not there now. And look at people like Graham Linehan, or Kathleen Stock, Allison Bailey etc etc. They may or may not gave been silenced because of the success of campaigns to stop it from happening, but the ideology decreed that they should have been, and it is absolutely the case that the attempt was made.

And please cease and desist with the unsubtle fascist digs? Your Cable Street reference is exactly the sort of thing I was talking about above - I rest my case .

Doodledog

Glorianny

Please could someone explain the ideology to me. Because on this I'm with the Chair of the London Assembly -Gender ideology- there's no such thing!

The ideology is that people can choose which sex they want to be.

That so-called 'gender' trumps biology (despite the obvious fact that gender is societally formed and is not innate at all).

That there is no need for safe spaces for biological women, as there is no difference between them and transwomen.

That men just need to say that they are women to become so, and thus gain access to anywhere that women can go, and compete against women in sports that require strength and are designed to test male bodies, and that women can say they are men and that will come true as well.

That children should be encouraged to believe that there are countless 'genders' and that they might be 'in the wrong body' - a concept that cannot be properly explained.

That a confused child who says that he or she is, in fact, the opposite sex should have this 'affirmed' by parents and schools, and that it should be legal for them to take puberty blockers and/or bind their breasts to prevent them from developing as nature intended.

That adolescents be given drugs that have radical effects, and that they will have to take them, at huge expense, for the rest of their lives.

And in common with most ideology it says that anyone not on board with all of that is a heretic and deserves to be silenced at all costs, with the use of threats if necessary.

But none of that is an ideology Doodledog
The definition is
a system of ideas and ideals, especially one which forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy

What you have posted are ideas which are being used to cope with some very real problems in society which sadly society seems to be unable to cope with.
The solutions used may not have been perfect but they offered many parents and children a chance to find some happiness.
Now there is nothing and they are left in limbo..

And no one is being silenced.
Asking that the sensitivities of others be respected is not silencing people. It is saying you can preach your discrimination but not in my backyard. That's been the case for centuries hence the Battle of Cable Street.

Well done Doodledog the ideology explained.

And in common with most ideology it says that anyone not on board with all of that is a heretic and deserves to be silenced at all costs, with the use of threats if necessary.

That so many organisations have been cowed into accepting and enforcing this is what I find so disturbing, it's as if intelligence and logic flew away.

It's not a cervix or a penis that makes a woman a woman or a man a man it's the chromosomes in their DNA.
Until science finds a way to manipulate this they are stuck with what they are born with however they feel.
My experiences in the hospital toilet did not really affect me but I could see the distress it caused the other elderly ladies especially the ones with Zimmer frames who really needed their husband's help. Their husband did not feel they could come into the ladies, so why did the chap feel he could and take up the time of three women getting himself organised and coming out like a street walker powdering his beard to hide it and pulling and tugging at what ever restrictive garment he had on.
What would have happened if he had gone into the Gents and done the same? He obviously felt safer with the non confrontational women and knew he could get away with it.

Glorianny

Please could someone explain the ideology to me. Because on this I'm with the Chair of the London Assembly -Gender ideology- there's no such thing!

The ideology is that people can choose which sex they want to be.

That so-called 'gender' trumps biology (despite the obvious fact that gender is societally formed and is not innate at all).

That there is no need for safe spaces for biological women, as there is no difference between them and transwomen.

That men just need to say that they are women to become so, and thus gain access to anywhere that women can go, and compete against women in sports that require strength and are designed to test male bodies, and that women can say they are men and that will come true as well.

That children should be encouraged to believe that there are countless 'genders' and that they might be 'in the wrong body' - a concept that cannot be properly explained.

That a confused child who says that he or she is, in fact, the opposite sex should have this 'affirmed' by parents and schools, and that it should be legal for them to take puberty blockers and/or bind their breasts to prevent them from developing as nature intended.

That adolescents be given drugs that have radical effects, and that they will have to take them, at huge expense, for the rest of their lives.

And in common with most ideology it says that anyone not on board with all of that is a heretic and deserves to be silenced at all costs, with the use of threats if necessary.