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Rishi Sunak and other Tories attack 15 minute cities

(176 Posts)
Dinahmo Sat 07-Oct-23 12:40:01

A Sorbonne professor, Carlos Moreno, has formulated the idea of 15 Minute Cities. These will be somewhere where " where inhabitants have access to all the services they need to live, learn and thrive within their immediate vicinity - and shares ideas for making urban areas adapt to humans, not the other way around"

According to the NY Times Moreno is now Public Enemy No 1 because of the widespread belief that he wants to ban cars. He does not but he hopes that by people being able to walk or cycle for 15 minutes to get to what they need dependency on cars will be reduced.

This is taken from Forbes Magazine:
After coining the term “15-minute city” Moreno was invited to give talks internationally. But with this growing profile—and the swift acceptance of his simple-to-grasp defining concept—he became the target of hate. He is often on the receiving end of personal abuse on social media.

“They insult me, call me human trash, Neo-fascist or a rotten Latino,” he told me by email last year. He has critics from the left and the right, but in an all too typical Venn diagram of tinfoilhattedness they share climate denial, downplay of Covid harms, and anti-vaxxer beliefs.

“Their lies are enormous,” he exclaimed.

“You will be locked in your neighborhood; cameras will signal who can go out; if your mother lives in another neighborhood, you will have to ask for permission to see her and so on.”

He added, in disgust, they “sometimes post pictures of concentration camps.”

“The conspiracists see a big global agreement,” he said.

“As the UN-Habitat, the World Economic Forum, the C40 Global Cities Climate Network, and the Federation of United Local Governments, among others, have supported the [15-Minute-City] concept, it feeds their fantasies that I am involved in the ‘invisible leadership’ of the world.”

Moreno has been shocked to see his concept derided by the U.K. government, with the U.K. transport secretary trashing 15-Minute Cities in his speech today at the annual Conservative Party conference in Manchester.

“Right across our country, there is a Labour-backed movement to make cars harder to use, to make driving more expensive, and to remove your freedom to get from A to B how you want,” Transport Secretary Mark Harper told the conference.

“I am calling time on the misuse of so-called 15-minute cities,” he added.

“What is sinister, and what we shouldn’t tolerate, is the idea that local councils can decide how often you go to the shops, and that they can ration who uses the roads and when, and that they police it all with CCTV,” Harper said.

According to The Sun, Prime Minister Sunak “takes aim at so-called ‘“15 Minute Cities’” to make everyday essentials bike friendly - vowing to make sure drivers are not ‘aggressively restricted’.”

“Associating the 15-Minute City again with so-called liberty-restricting measures is tantamount to aligning with the most radical and anti-democratic elements of this movement.”

This is from Politico:

Broadly, the idea is to cut down on long commutes and car emissions, and improve people's quality of life by ensuring they have access to quality services where they live.
That's not the way it's being seen in Oxford.

News that the city council adopted a plan to embrace the 15-minute city model prompted fierce backlash, with local groups and public figures alleging that authorities planned to restrict residents to their immediate neighborhoods and strictly police their movements. A rally attend by thousands in Oxford last month claimed to be protesting plans to reconfigure the city as a "Stalinist-style, closed city" and the eventual enslavement of local citizens.

The outrage has been fanned by popular right-wing media figures and politicians, who seized on the issue as an outrageous example of government overreach.

"You will only have 15 minutes of freedom here in the U.K.," said the far-right media personality Katy Hopkins, who compared the scheme to pandemic-era lockdowns and claimed authorities will use facial recognition technology to police residents.

News commentator Mark Dolan denounced the plan as "dystopian," and similarly warned that the city planned to use "numberplate recognition cameras, installed everywhere" to create "a surveillance culture that would make Pyongyang envious."

The issue even made its way to the House of Commons, where Tory MP Nick Fletcher described 15-minute cities as an "international socialist concept" whose ultimate purpose was to "take away personal freedoms."

Although these alarmist claims of mass surveillance and loss of individual freedom are indeed far-fetched, the anxiety and unrest unleashed in Oxford fits into a broader picture of local pushback across Europe against green measures that are perceived as an attack on personal freedoms — particularly when they affect personal car use.

Given that most people are used to our high streets becoming deserts with only charity shops and cafes and not much else, surely the idea of the facilities that we need being much closer to our homes, surely the 15 minute city is a good idea?

What do you think?

DaisyAnneReturns Wed 11-Oct-23 08:44:30

GrannyGravy13

Growstuff I have two friends who live here who have had their operations in your Cottage Hospital in the last six months.

It is functioning as an overflow facility for the entire County at the moment.

No idea what that us about Granny. I have tried giving you facts but you want to believe something other. I have better thing to do than have that level of conversation.

DaisyAnneReturns Wed 11-Oct-23 08:41:00

fancythat

DaisyAnneReturns

A lot of us have family, and some friends for that matter, hundreds of miles away nowadays.

How does that affect 15/20 minute neighbourhoods in cities,
fancythat? Nothing about these neighbourhoods being improved will make a difference to you, in your rural community, visiting such friends.

It wont at the moment, no.

But not at all hard to see where this could all potentially end up.

You yourself mention people using their cars less.

We will eventually have differently powered cars and, hopefully trains, busses and trams we want to use. I still think this is tin hat country when you accuse people who are trying to improve lives of those in places you don't live in as being part of some devious plot.

We know the ultra-right spread these rumours. Why are you not questioning why they would do that? If they keep up the weedling stretching of the truth, one day it will snap back. You will then find none of the influencing you seem to have succumbed to was for your sake, only for theirs.

But then, some people never learn.

GrannyGravy13 Wed 11-Oct-23 08:15:08

Growstuff I have two friends who live here who have had their operations in your Cottage Hospital in the last six months.

It is functioning as an overflow facility for the entire County at the moment.

fancythat Wed 11-Oct-23 08:10:56

And what about the people living in Oxford currently. Who are objecting currently.
Do their feelings and lives not matter?

fancythat Wed 11-Oct-23 08:09:40

DaisyAnneReturns

^A lot of us have family, and some friends for that matter, hundreds of miles away nowadays.^

How does that affect 15/20 minute neighbourhoods in cities,
fancythat? Nothing about these neighbourhoods being improved will make a difference to you, in your rural community, visiting such friends.

It wont at the moment, no.

But not at all hard to see where this could all potentially end up.

You yourself mention people using their cars less.

DaisyAnneReturns Wed 11-Oct-23 08:05:15

Curtaintwitcher

Surely this is simply going back to how things used to be? Not so long ago, everyone had a small shopping centre close by including a post office. Then along came the supermarkets, small shops were priced out and forced to close, and people were directed towards shopping in town centres. I would be more than happy to 'shop local' and do so whenever it is possible.

Very much so Curtaintwitcher. On the edge of cities there are areas like this where property sells for a hefty premium.

It appears we may not make things better for the poorer, inner city areas least it adds a few minutes to the 4 x 4 drivers journey's as the head into the business areas and then back to their homes in the country.

I can only think this is the group stirring up the opposition - they are the only ones with something to lose. It appears Sunak is now so obsessed with believing ULEZ won him his little victory that the conservatives and their client media are now spreading some very spurious rumours.

DaisyAnneReturns Wed 11-Oct-23 07:53:20

fancythat

Sorry, but I remain totally unconvinced of 15 minute cities.

With such an illogical approach to them I am not surprised. I cannot see how they will affect you.

DaisyAnneReturns Wed 11-Oct-23 07:51:07

A lot of us have family, and some friends for that matter, hundreds of miles away nowadays.

How does that affect 15/20 minute neighbourhoods in cities,
fancythat? Nothing about these neighbourhoods being improved will make a difference to you, in your rural community, visiting such friends.

DaisyAnneReturns Wed 11-Oct-23 07:44:40

M0nica

The 15 minute city may be a good idea, but so far local authorities have only worked on the traffic restraining side of it. They have not done anything about localising any of the services.

For example splitting up doctor's surgeries so we have lots of small surgeries with a few doctors, and, obviously more limited facilities, closing big secondary schools and replacing them with more and smaller schools, closing down out of town retail parks and replacing them with small local shops.

15 minute cities are a wonderful idea. So far all that is happened is Local Authroties have used them as an excuse to make using cars difficult in small neighbourhoods, without ensuring the provisionof any of the services that go with them.

They have in Leeds, Oxford and Edinburgh MOnica. I haven't come across other areas, perhaps you could flag them. I do think there are some people - there are always some, aren't there - who only want to see the negative. Those who are no longer living on a daily rat-run, for instance, seem to be pleased that their safety and the safety of their children has improved.

Why would you split up surgeries? I haven't seen that suggested. You only have to imagine our old friend the Venn diagram, to see that medical facilities, libraries, schools, etc., can easily be 15/20 minutes from the edge of several of these neighbourhoods. Many already will be.

I don't live in an inner city area. I love where I do live but I would want the best day-to-day living for those who do have to live there, rather than appease the driver who just uses them as a shortcut twice a day. It really isn't beyond the wit of mankind to make it work for both.

Curtaintwitcher Wed 11-Oct-23 07:38:05

Surely this is simply going back to how things used to be? Not so long ago, everyone had a small shopping centre close by including a post office. Then along came the supermarkets, small shops were priced out and forced to close, and people were directed towards shopping in town centres. I would be more than happy to 'shop local' and do so whenever it is possible.

fancythat Wed 11-Oct-23 07:32:18

Sorry, but I remain totally unconvinced of 15 minute cities.

fancythat Wed 11-Oct-23 07:31:36

*The idea of 15 minute cities is that people do not wander far, is it not?

No. It's to build thriving communities that are easier to live in, on a daily basis, where, hopefully, people will need to use their cars less.*

To my rural mind, cities are already that.

No mention of friends and family Why would they? You would carry on seeing them as you normally do. Access to them, with better transport provision, will help some.

A lot of us have family, and some friends for that matter, hundreds of miles away nowadays.
More people going to universities, and then meeting people from everywhere, has meant many more families are so much more spread out than they used to be, even 30 years ago.

If the idea is that people use their cars less, continuing massive university education somewhat messes that up.

Seeing friends and family will depend on what it always has. Whether you want to see them and whether they want to see you. That is not the business of the council.

We would very much hope it isnt.
But hardly fits the mould of using cars less.

M0nica Wed 11-Oct-23 07:07:27

The 15 minute city may be a good idea, but so far local authorities have only worked on the traffic restraining side of it. They have not done anything about localising any of the services.

For example splitting up doctor's surgeries so we have lots of small surgeries with a few doctors, and, obviously more limited facilities, closing big secondary schools and replacing them with more and smaller schools, closing down out of town retail parks and replacing them with small local shops.

15 minute cities are a wonderful idea. So far all that is happened is Local Authroties have used them as an excuse to make using cars difficult in small neighbourhoods, without ensuring the provisionof any of the services that go with them.

DaisyAnneReturns Wed 11-Oct-23 07:07:27

The idea of 15 minute cities is that people do not wander far, is it not?

No. It's to build thriving communities that are easier to live in, on a daily basis, where, hopefully, people will need to use their cars less.

No mention of friends and family Why would they? You would carry on seeing them as you normally do. Access to them, with better transport provision, will help some.

You yourself dont mention friends and family either in the op

I didn't write the OP.

Seeing friends and family will depend on what it always has. Whether you want to see them and whether they want to see you. That is not the business of the council.

As some people have said, their homes are in natural 15/20 minute neighbourhoods. They don't seem to have problems seeing friends and family.

This seems a very illogical response to an idea to improve city living by providing local facilities.

fancythat Wed 11-Oct-23 06:31:38

Maybe you wish to make multiple visits even within the 15 minute cities, to a friend or family.
That is all ok too I suppose. No problemo.

fancythat Wed 11-Oct-23 06:25:24

The idea of 15 minute cities is that people do not wander far, is it not?
So why would frequent, and maybe long trips to visit people, be welcomed?
You can guarantee that would be all tickety boo can you? Forever?
In which case, what would be the overall point of 15 minute cities?

fancythat Wed 11-Oct-23 06:13:40

where inhabitants have access to all the services they need to live, learn and thrive within their immediate vicinity

From the OP.

No mention of friends and family.

* and shares ideas for making urban areas adapt to humans, not the other way around"*

Concrete alone cannot adapt to humans.

*surely the idea of the facilities that we need being much closer to our homes, surely the 15 minute city is a good idea?
*

You yourself dont mention friends and family either in the op. Only facilities needed.

Most of the comments on here are devoid of people.
I suspect you might be happy with AI and robots providing the "services" and "facilities" as well.
Perhaps that is your idea of utopia.
It certainly is not mine.

DaisyAnneReturns Tue 10-Oct-23 23:23:44

Nobody would be stopping anybody from visiting friends and family who live further than 15 minutes away.

If that is what posters still believe they haven't read the OP or they misread it. There were enough posts explaining the actual plans to disabuse any one of such a weird idea. Surely we all have a responsibility to get facts right not spread fiction as if it is fact.

growstuff Tue 10-Oct-23 23:01:31

Nobody would be stopping anybody from visiting friends and family who live further than 15 minutes away.

The idea is that new developments would have facilities available within a short walk. Currently, there are housing estates with no shops, pubs, leisure facilities, doctors, schools, etc. - just houses - and people have to use a car just to get outside the estate. Not only that, but there are no communal places for people to meet.

We've had this discussion before on GN. I thought about it then and realised that I already live in an (almost) 15 minute city (well, town). I don't work and there's just about everything I need/want within a 15/20 minute walk - it makes for a very pleasant place to live.

Admittedly, many people work outside the area, but they can hop on a bus to the station and the local council is making efforts to encourage more work to locate here. There's a "cottage" hospital, which is offering an increasing number of services and it's not that far to a big regional hospital.

I honestly struggle to understand how an idea which is essentially good has been twisted to seem as though people are being imprisoned.

DaisyAnneReturns Tue 10-Oct-23 22:40:56

I think some of what you see coming under the Mass Production heading has been turning round for some time CanadianGran.

Take medicine. While some areas are "massed", particularly specialist surgery, etc., much is now being done at or closer to home. More people are being enabled to do dialysis at home for example. With more specialist nurses taking over single areas once done by doctors more of the simpler surgery could be done by appropriately qualified GPs and maternity care and birth could move back to the community.

There have been trials of teams designed to keep patients from ever going into hospital and to aid those in hospital to come hone as soon as possible. There is also more and more talk of virtual wards, allowing more people to stay at home.

Things are changing and no doubt AI will increase the speed of that change.

DaisyAnneReturns Tue 10-Oct-23 22:15:14

Norah

fancythat

I am going to repeat myself.
15 minute cities - minus your friends and families. No thanks.
Dont care just how many facilities are available in them, except for medical ones.

I agree.

Again, what do you mean by "minus your friends and families" Nora? Why would you be anymore "minus" them than you are currently.

Perhaps you could help make sense of this comment for me.

Norah Tue 10-Oct-23 21:53:28

fancythat

I am going to repeat myself.
15 minute cities - minus your friends and families. No thanks.
Dont care just how many facilities are available in them, except for medical ones.

I agree.

CanadianGran Tue 10-Oct-23 21:20:46

I think in the realms of urban planning, it is a great idea and a good goal.

In practicality, society has gotten into mass production and also consumption. Farmers had to farm on a mass industrial scale in order to be profitable; grocery stores don't want to open a shop with only 5000 customers, they want to have 10 or 20, 000. Medicine has been centralizing, as are just about any service such as banks. Then you need a large property, the only place it is available is on the outskirts of a town. Then you may as well place it right between two towns, to get customers from both places, and so it goes. I don't think we can reel back from urban spread.

And of course all the conspiracy theory people have taken this as a sign of the few trying to control the masses. I think no matter how sensible the theory is, one cannot have a civil conversation with these types. They will always find some evil plot.

DaisyAnneReturns Tue 10-Oct-23 20:52:27

What do you mean by "minus your friends and families" fancythat? Why would you be anymore "minus" them than you are currently?

fancythat Tue 10-Oct-23 20:23:10

I am going to repeat myself.
15 minute cities - minus your friends and families. No thanks.
Dont care just how many facilities are available in them, except for medical ones.