Hamas has attacked Israel

foxie48

GG13, this is the West Bank which is not governed by Hamas. Fatah is opposed to Hamas and the security of both Palestinian and Jewish people living in the West Bank should be equally respected.

Did you watch Victoria Derbyshire this morning 9am BBC1

She interviewed a representative of the non-Hamas Palestinians, he wouldn’t condemn their actions, he just condemned Israel.

If Jewish civilians feel unsafe in their homeland, in Germany there are stars appearing on Jewish front doors, the angry protestors with vile chants, references to the holocaust etc etc, is it any surprise that they feel the need to have weapons just in case ?

GG13, this is the West Bank which is not governed by Hamas. Fatah is opposed to Hamas and the security of both Palestinian and Jewish people living in the West Bank should be equally respected.

Shelmiss

Aveline I wasn’t saying I had experienced antisemitism on his site. I was posting my experience of life as a Jew today

And for you Shelmiss the fear you feel is very real.

If Jewish people start to feel unsafe in places like the UK, France or Germany, and their safe haven - Israel- is no longer, think how devastated they must feel. They have no option but to protect it for their wider community or they would have nowhere in the world to go.

TerriBull so true

Reading Shelmis post brings it home just what it is to be Jewish today in these troubled times. I agree it's perfectly acceptable to criticise the government of Netanyahu as well as Hamas. However, it does seem to be many of the demonstrations under the guise of pro Palestinian were actually hate fuelled attempts to strike fear into our Jewish communities here in the west, discounting Arab countries because they seem to wheel out "rent a mobs" at the drop of a hat. Those here in the UK were utterly shameful in that some of those demonstrating had "remember the 1940s" stuck on their backs and other places, if that doesn't constitute a hate crime, then there's something wrong! They all conveniently ignore the massacre of innocent Israelis, in worst case scenarios glorifying those and the fact
they have triggered Israel's vengeful all out response, relishing the fact that damns Israel in the eyes of the world which was probably why the whole operation was orchestrated. Hamas we know gives not a jot for any innocent Palestinians caught up in the crossfire. Sadly in the minds of the fascists who support Hamas all Jews are guilty of whatever is meted out to people of Palestine. The rhetoric and attacks on our Jewish community are appalling, but carried out by a minority, although when under threat I imagine it doesn't seem like that. I just hope our Jewish community feel that the majority are appalled by those agitators behaviour and stand with them against what would appear to be an onslaught but isn't representative of the more rational and balanced population.

foxie48 distribution of arms to protect themselves is the result of Hamas’s criminal attacks on Jewish civilians.

If I was them I would want to be able to protect myself and my family.

As I said up thread I think they need to show impartiality because they have reporters in Gaza who could be at risk if they didn't. There are some pretty vile people around Netanyahu who have been stirring up trouble in the West Bank.
Today's Guardian
"Israeli media, meanwhile, reported that the country’s extreme rightwing national security minister, Itamar Ben-Gvir, ordered 10,000 assault rifles to be spread among the West Bank settlements and cities with mixed Israeli and Palestinian populations, including 4,000 that were distributed immediately."
Thankfully, he's been left out of the War Cabinet but his stated aim is apparently to rid Gaza of Palestinians. Please do a little google search on him, it is illuminating to see what is written about him in the Israeli media.

They are being ridiculous and need a kick up the proverbial.But in the scheme of things…………..'

I don't think the BBC are being ridiculous, just very very careful.

I absolutely agree that in the scheme of things this is a minor point of distraction.

As an avid r4 listener, me too,

So am I. I like their 'BBC verify' section where they explain how they check the accuracy of news items.

The BBC sometimes make it incredibly difficult for themselves and their defenders, and on occasion get a bit lost, but I am glad they are there.

Blimey, you can tell that I’ve got too much time on my hands! I must stop yabbering and get up and take the dressings off. That will give me something to think about!!🤕🙂

mollygro you know you can and are quite at liberty to criticise a governments actions. That does not mean that you are criticising the populations of those countries because of their faith or indeed race.

So for example I am free to criticise both Hamas and Netanyahu for their inhumane acts but I am not criticising the folk who are suffering as a result of these heinous acts.

I think in a way the BBC has opted for the easy option (or treating us like idiots) as it is probably easier to try to show impartiality by avoiding the need to explain the difference between fanatical religious groups and the history leading up to the reason for its existence and how they can be seen as separate from the general population, just like any power in charge.

It is avoiding the need to explain why, how and when. Stuff people find tedious, but frankly is needed to understand the overall framework.

merlotgran

The BBC are now referring to Hamas as ‘regarded as a terrorist organisation by the UK!’

What nonsense is this? Why are they still refusing to call them terrorists?

Stuck in a traffic jam I listened to an explanation of why the BBC don’t call them terrorists. Something to do with it being a fight between two countries, though I don’t recall the whole explanation.
Regardless of religion or country, anyone walking in on innocent civilians and shooting them, and videoing themselves carrying out atrocities, is a terrorist.
The BBC are in an awkward position in that whatever they report will be seen as anti semitic or anti Muslim depending on your viewpoint.

But it's true. Hamas are regarded as a terrorist organisation.

Being able to Criticise a government is part of democracy, it does not mean criticism of its people.

merlotgran

The BBC are now referring to Hamas as ‘regarded as a terrorist organisation by the UK!’

What nonsense is this? Why are they still refusing to call them terrorists?

Because they are twisting themselves in knots trying to be impartial.

Imo impartiality has no place when describing a fanatical religious military group.

They are being ridiculous and need a kick up the proverbial.

But in the scheme of things…………..

The BBC are now referring to Hamas as ‘regarded as a terrorist organisation by the UK!’

What nonsense is this? Why are they still refusing to call them terrorists?

I would hope and expect that all anti-Semitic posts have been deleted. If there are any left then I think they should be reported immediately, and deleted.

Saying there has been no anti semitism on this thread is telling in itself.

Stay strong Shelmiss. I know it’s extremely worrying; I share your concern. I’m glad my grandparents are long gone as this would be extremely triggering.

I've just listened to the religious programme "Sunday" on radio 4. Jonathan Freedland gave an explanation of why the kibbutz near to Gaza were left unprotected and vulnerable to attack. He also explained what the priorities of the Netanyahu govt had been and why Israelis had become so polarised. None of this post is an excuse for the atrocities committed by Hamas but it does help to explain why people (like me) are talking about Israels 's govt. After 9/11 there was a huge backlash against Muslims, after the Birmingham pub bombings there was a backlash against the Irish, it's what ignorant people do. There will be marches in support of the People of Gaza, what's happening to them is inhumane and it is not "anti semitic" to voice that opinion, sadly there will be vile anti semitic people there too but we surely need to understand the difference?

If I was a Muslim I would have joined the March supporting my religion, in the same way if I was a Jew I would be supporting Israel, as I’m neither I see both sides of the issue.

The Hamas aim to destroy Israel is not an aim that should be supported by anyone.

merlotgran

Apparently Israel is investigating the attack on the lorry carrying fleeing Palestinians.

That’s good to know.

Shelmiss

Aveline I wasn’t saying I had experienced antisemitism on his site. I was posting my experience of life as a Jew today

I sincerely hope you and your family can feel safe once more in the U.K.

My Jewish friends have said similarly to me, they are also afraid.