Hamas has attacked Israel

GrannyGravy13, thanks for your contributions to this discussion. I share the desperation for the Palestinian people. I find the demonising of Israel alienating. Hamas is a terrorist organisation. Israel has a democratic government. It’s a government I disagree with, as do my Jewish friends but I reject the claim by Fleurpepper that the Israeli government is terrorist.
No one can feel anything other than despair and distress as what’s happening to innocent Palestinian families. But I’ve seen no evidence that Netanyahu ignored intelligence. Those claims sit with the allegations /conspiracy theories that the US and ‘the Jews’ were responsible for 9/ll

You simply cannot compare the actions of an utterly fanatical religious group with a democratically elected government - nor should you.

Nothing Hamas does is civilising but that does not mean that Israel should respond with the same. They are or should be better than that. Israel must be held to a higher standard in order to gain the moral high ground. I would expect the same of any democracy.

Where is the evidence that the Israeli Government had prior knowledge of the attacks?

I have seen rumours, but no hard evidence

Allsorts

Where are they supposed to go?

Exactly.

GG13, vast numbers in Israel are blaming Netanyahu, who chose to totally ignore the clear intelligence he had, about Hamas intentions.

Where are they supposed to go?

Fleurpepper

Huge numbers of people fleeing to nowhere with little petrol, few cars, on foot with young children and elderly, with a few bits and pieces on mules and donkeys.

How can a six hour window to nowhere have any meaning? Especially when being bombed?

The six hour window was an extension of the 24 hours notice that Israel gave yesterday, in total they had 30 hours to leave the North of Gaza.

Thirty hours notice, if only Hamas had given the young Israeli’s and tourist at the Peace Music Festival, those living in the Kibbutz or other Israeli citizens notice of their murderous intentions…

Thousands March in London today in support of Palistine and against the Gaza Genocide.

Letters were sent out today instructing Labour parties not to join any rallies
in solitary with Palestine.
Tory Crispin Conservative served notice on his government that he planing to bring legal proceedings including a reference to the international criminal court for being complicit in War crimes in Gaza

Huge numbers of people fleeing to nowhere with little petrol, few cars, on foot with young children and elderly, with a few bits and pieces on mules and donkeys.

How can a six hour window to nowhere have any meaning? Especially when being bombed?

DiamondLily

The so called "safe corridor", set up by Israel, has been bombed, killing children. Tragic for the innocents, on both sides.🙁

www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67108364

The BBC reported this morning that the safe corridor would be held open for six hours from 8am U.K. time.

Is there any indication whether it was during the safe period or after.

It is heartbreaking that so many civilians are going to die in the coming days.

The so called "safe corridor", set up by Israel, has been bombed, killing children. Tragic for the innocents, on both sides.🙁

www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67108364

foxie48

The BBC is one of the few broadcasters that have reporters in Gaza, I think they are trying to protect them whilst still being able to get regular news reports out. Not sure about this but it was discussed on The Media Show this week. They are Gazans who live there with their families so very exposed.

Yes, the BBC is reporting from both sides of the border with experienced journalists.

Jeremy Bowen is an expert on Middle Eastern affairs.

The BBC is one of the few broadcasters that have reporters in Gaza, I think they are trying to protect them whilst still being able to get regular news reports out. Not sure about this but it was discussed on The Media Show this week. They are Gazans who live there with their families so very exposed.

GrannyGravy13

Fleurpepper

GrannyGravy13

RosiesMaw

Fleurpepper

NO evidence found whatsoever for the beheading of babies- which has been now proven to be fake news of the worst order- and which had a massive effect all around the world.

www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/10/13/watching-the-watchdogs-babies-and-truth-die-together-in-israel-palestine

Along with the white phosphorus “photograph” I take it.
Anthony Loyd of The Times has called out the picture of a young boy who was allegedly burnt by phosphorus in Gaza as incorrect
The photo was one which he took in October 2019 after the Turkish used it on civilians in Syria .

I posted this upthread RosesMaw

There is a swathe of untruths on social media.

Sadly not only on Social Media- but in the Press and TV reports all over the world.

Hamas are terrorists, and nothing can excuse their actions, even if some of the worst ones we now know to be false. Their actions will never excuse the mass bombings of ordinary civilians, babies, children the elderly, whole families- being told to flee to wnowhere and being bombed on the way, with or without phosphorus. THAT is illegal, and so has been the massive and never ending expansion of Israel- illegal expansion, killings and now bombing civilians they have told to flee, makes them terrorists too. Nothing less.

Israel is at war with Hamas, the death of civilians is appalling, abhorrent and heartbreaking.

Remember Hamas started this, they knew Israel would retaliate hard, the blame lays entirely with Hamas.

Oh I have not forgotten. And the Palestinians are those who are suffering terribly. It does NOT give the Israelis to bomb civilians who they told to flee- knowing full well they have nowhere to go. Does it?

If and when they do, and they are- it makes them illegal terrorists too. Nothing less.

The unrelenting, cruel, dehumanising, forceful and illegal expansion of Israel has led to this. Which will never excuse the actions of Hamas (although some of the worst reported has been shown to be the vilest of fake news- to stir up even more hatred.).

MerylStreep

GrannyGravy13

RosiesMaw

Fleurpepper

NO evidence found whatsoever for the beheading of babies- which has been now proven to be fake news of the worst order- and which had a massive effect all around the world.

www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/10/13/watching-the-watchdogs-babies-and-truth-die-together-in-israel-palestine

Along with the white phosphorus “photograph” I take it.
Anthony Loyd of The Times has called out the picture of a young boy who was allegedly burnt by phosphorus in Gaza as incorrect
The photo was one which he took in October 2019 after the Turkish used it on civilians in Syria .

I posted this upthread RosesMaw

There is a swathe of untruths on social media.

Not just on social media. Plenty of evidence of it here.
But people believe what they want to believe, don’t they 😉

They sure do.

Galaxy

If you think Hamas are freedom fighters you are going to get the shock of your life.

So are the Palestinians.

Fleurpepper

GrannyGravy13

RosiesMaw

Fleurpepper

NO evidence found whatsoever for the beheading of babies- which has been now proven to be fake news of the worst order- and which had a massive effect all around the world.

www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/10/13/watching-the-watchdogs-babies-and-truth-die-together-in-israel-palestine

Along with the white phosphorus “photograph” I take it.
Anthony Loyd of The Times has called out the picture of a young boy who was allegedly burnt by phosphorus in Gaza as incorrect
The photo was one which he took in October 2019 after the Turkish used it on civilians in Syria .

I posted this upthread RosesMaw

There is a swathe of untruths on social media.

Sadly not only on Social Media- but in the Press and TV reports all over the world.

Hamas are terrorists, and nothing can excuse their actions, even if some of the worst ones we now know to be false. Their actions will never excuse the mass bombings of ordinary civilians, babies, children the elderly, whole families- being told to flee to wnowhere and being bombed on the way, with or without phosphorus. THAT is illegal, and so has been the massive and never ending expansion of Israel- illegal expansion, killings and now bombing civilians they have told to flee, makes them terrorists too. Nothing less.

Israel is at war with Hamas, the death of civilians is appalling, abhorrent and heartbreaking.

Remember Hamas started this, they knew Israel would retaliate hard, the blame lays entirely with Hamas.

GrannyGravy13

RosiesMaw

Fleurpepper

NO evidence found whatsoever for the beheading of babies- which has been now proven to be fake news of the worst order- and which had a massive effect all around the world.

www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/10/13/watching-the-watchdogs-babies-and-truth-die-together-in-israel-palestine

Along with the white phosphorus “photograph” I take it.
Anthony Loyd of The Times has called out the picture of a young boy who was allegedly burnt by phosphorus in Gaza as incorrect
The photo was one which he took in October 2019 after the Turkish used it on civilians in Syria .

I posted this upthread RosesMaw

There is a swathe of untruths on social media.

Not just on social media. Plenty of evidence of it here.
But people believe what they want to believe, don’t they 😉

RosiesMaw

This was what I was referring to GrannyGravy13 - apologies for not crediting you with pointing it out!

No problem Maw

GrannyGravy13

RosiesMaw

Fleurpepper

NO evidence found whatsoever for the beheading of babies- which has been now proven to be fake news of the worst order- and which had a massive effect all around the world.

www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/10/13/watching-the-watchdogs-babies-and-truth-die-together-in-israel-palestine

Along with the white phosphorus “photograph” I take it.
Anthony Loyd of The Times has called out the picture of a young boy who was allegedly burnt by phosphorus in Gaza as incorrect
The photo was one which he took in October 2019 after the Turkish used it on civilians in Syria .

I posted this upthread RosesMaw

There is a swathe of untruths on social media.

Sadly not only on Social Media- but in the Press and TV reports all over the world.

Hamas are terrorists, and nothing can excuse their actions, even if some of the worst ones we now know to be false. Their actions will never excuse the mass bombings of ordinary civilians, babies, children the elderly, whole families- being told to flee to wnowhere and being bombed on the way, with or without phosphorus. THAT is illegal, and so has been the massive and never ending expansion of Israel- illegal expansion, killings and now bombing civilians they have told to flee, makes them terrorists too. Nothing less.

This was what I was referring to GrannyGravy13 - apologies for not crediting you with pointing it out!

Callistemon21

MayBee70

Over 2,000 + Palestinians are known to have been killed thus far. Does it matter how they were killed? The fact is that most of them are totally innocent and do not support Hamas.

Yes, they need to be liberated too.
😥

I agree regarding the innocent civilians of Gaza, unfortunately their cowardly leaders Hamas are using 1,000’s of them along with hostages as human shields.

Callistemon21

^As previously stated- one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Not for the BBC to say which is which.^

It is the national broadcaster, funded by the public, of a country which has, along with many others, designated Hamas as a terrorist group.

The PM, Leader of the Opposition, The King and many many more publicly call Hamas a terrorist organisation, then the BBC should get off of the politically correct fence and call the, what they are terrorists

MayBee70

Over 2,000 + Palestinians are known to have been killed thus far. Does it matter how they were killed? The fact is that most of them are totally innocent and do not support Hamas.

Yes, they need to be liberated too.
😥

Galaxy

If you think Hamas are freedom fighters you are going to get the shock of your life.

Abso-bloody-lutely

As previously stated- one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Not for the BBC to say which is which.

It is the national broadcaster, funded by the public, of a country which has, along with many others, designated Hamas as a terrorist group.