Israel, Hamas and now Hezbollah

GrannyGravy13

MayBee70

I wondered at the start of all this (and I think a news report referred to this) that some of the terrorists that did those unspeakable things had been given drugs of some kind because what they did was inhuman. My first thought was that they were like the berserkers that were used in battles. These are the sort of people we’re up against.

Yes Urmstongram posted about this either in this thread or the first one.

It is known that suicide bombers are given drugs before carrying out their deadly mission.

MayBee70

I wondered at the start of all this (and I think a news report referred to this) that some of the terrorists that did those unspeakable things had been given drugs of some kind because what they did was inhuman. My first thought was that they were like the berserkers that were used in battles. These are the sort of people we’re up against.

Yes Urmstongram posted about this either in this thread or the first one.

I wondered at the start of all this (and I think a news report referred to this) that some of the terrorists that did those unspeakable things had been given drugs of some kind because what they did was inhuman. My first thought was that they were like the berserkers that were used in battles. These are the sort of people we’re up against.

MayBee70

You take away the reason for the terrorism. You starve them of it. But you also have to talk to them even when it seems that a dialogue will never be possible. And then you still have to keep working at it. Look at how Brexit has threatened peace in Ireland.They play by different rules rules. Look at how the attack has made all of us on here argue with each other even though we all want the same thing.

I hope Hamas will negotiate and will release the hostages, but I am doubtful at this moment in time.

I posted upthread that our PM is in contact with the Emir of Qatar who in turn is in contact with the Hamas leaders.

The point I was trying to make is that the Hamas butchers of 7/10 have to either be brought to justice or eliminated, they cannot be left to repeat their actions.

You take away the reason for the terrorism. You starve them of it. But you also have to talk to them even when it seems that a dialogue will never be possible. And then you still have to keep working at it. Look at how Brexit has threatened peace in Ireland.They play by different rules rules. Look at how the attack has made all of us on here argue with each other even though we all want the same thing.

MayBee70

You don’t combat terrorism by bombing countries. Look at Afghanistan, Iraq. How many people died in those campaigns and what did it achieve?

What do you suggest?

Hamas are currently unwilling to negotiate.

Hamas are still shelling Israel on a daily basis.

You don’t combat terrorism by bombing countries. Look at Afghanistan, Iraq. How many people died in those campaigns and what did it achieve?

MayBee70

silverlining48

I was Indeed,

I know. I’m apologise for using that as an example. What I tried to point out in my clumsy way was that Israel has the right to defend itself : tick. That defence means bombing Gaza:tick. Bombing Gaza means inevitably killing many children: tick. So why does that not mean that the west thinks that, if that is inevitable, it doesn’t equate to acceptable when Isreal appears to be justified in what they’re doing to Gaza?

Israel are targeting Hamas

Hamas are cowards and hide using civilians as human shields

What is Israel meant to do, nothing? Are they meant to just forget the barbaric actions of Hamas on 7/10?

To do nothing would leave the door open for Hamas to strike again.

Did you read my post of 15.16.48?

silverlining48

I was Indeed,

I know. I’m apologise for using that as an example. What I tried to point out in my clumsy way was that Israel has the right to defend itself : tick. That defence means bombing Gaza:tick. Bombing Gaza means inevitably killing many children: tick. So why does that not mean that the west thinks that, if that is inevitable, it doesn’t equate to acceptable when Isreal appears to be justified in what they’re doing to Gaza?

I was Indeed,

I think silverlining was pointing out the tragedy of that surely.

MayBee70 inevitable and acceptable do not mean the same thing, they are not interchangeable. I haven't seen one poster say that Palestinian child deaths are acceptable. Nobody thinks any child death is acceptable.

MayBee70

GrannyGravy13

MayBee70

Would it still be acceptable if those children were white and western?

Not sure what you are implying, I haven’t seen any poster saying that the deaths of Palestinian children were acceptable.

Quote silverlining48 Thu 26-Oct-23 13:08:32
It’s inevitable that many children will be killed because I believe I am right that nearly half the population of Gaza are under 15.

Silverlinings48 posts did not say that children’s deaths were acceptable, she pointed out that nearly half the population of Gaza was under 15, which is totally different.

You are implying something which was not posted.

Safe passage to where? Egypt won’t let them in and have you forgotten the IED planted on the safe route which killed 70 civilians? Israel couldn’t have planted it so if that doesn’t show you what Hamas are, I don’t think there’s anything more to say.

GrannyGravy13

MayBee70

Would it still be acceptable if those children were white and western?

Not sure what you are implying, I haven’t seen any poster saying that the deaths of Palestinian children were acceptable.

Quote silverlining48 Thu 26-Oct-23 13:08:32
It’s inevitable that many children will be killed because I believe I am right that nearly half the population of Gaza are under 15.

But having instructed Palestinians to leave Israel has bombed the "safe" routes.
The UN has consistently asked for safe passage for Palestinians, but has not been able to create any safe routes.

Glorianny
Thank you for your apology. However,
You have Hamas to thank for that and of course Israel protects Israelis as it should. That’s their job.
As for slaughter we know who does that and doesn’t give any warnings they’re about to carry out a massacre and if they did issue warnings Israel wouldn’t stop their civilians leaving in order to use them as human shields.

In fact it is Israel who has closed the borders to Gaza
As I said some blame Palestinians for the deaths Israel is responsible for.

Your picking out sentences and paragraphs again to further your cause.

I answered as I did because you asked “does Israel only protect Israelis?”

As for Israel closing the border. They dropped thousands of leaflets advising civilians to leave and gave them a minimum of 24 hours to do so. According to witnesses Hamas stopped people leaving. Lots of civilian losses suits Hamas as its great propaganda for them. To use civilians in this way is horrific. If Hamas was a legitimate government its priority should be its people and to protect them, not use them for political gain.

The number of deaths is dreadful but you cannot keep placing all the blame on Israel’s shoulders.

Aside from the ongoing blame game all deaths are tragic and I certainly don’t believe Palestinian children are worth less than Israeli ones. It’s a nightmare all round but posts saying what’s the UK or any other nation going to do about it are just hot air. As someone else pointed out no country can demand Israel stop its bombardement. They say they’re determined to see it through and, unless and until that changes all the UK can do is get aid and medical supplies in as quickly as possible. I’m sure various heads of state and diplomats are working hard behind the scenes to bring this war to an end.

MayBee70

Would it still be acceptable if those children were white and western?

Not sure what you are implying, I haven’t seen any poster saying that the deaths of Palestinian children were acceptable.

Not surprised

Would it still be acceptable if those children were white and western?

silverlining48

It’s inevitable that many children will be killed because I believe I am right that nearly half the population of Gaza are under 15.

Yes that is right. When you look at footage of Gaza there are so many children in the streets. I think that the knowledge of the children killed, maimed, made hostage by Hamas or homeless must be one if the worst things I have witnessed carried out by protagonists in recent history.

Let’s not forget that Netanyahu is a leader who, until recently was ‘not welcome at the White House ’ and his own army reservists were refusing to fight for him. He is the ultimate political survivor and I believe that he would put his own political ambitions before everything. Israel and itself people deserve better than him. I trust him as much as I trust Putin.

tickingbird

Glorianny
Hamas need to be wiped out, if they hide amongst Palestinian civilians and foreign national hostages it is Hamas which has the blood of innocents on their hands.
tickingbird

GranyGravy13. 23/10 08:13 NOT ME!

If you’re going to be quoting from earlier in the thread then do it properly and don’t put my name to posts that aren’t mine.

Nothing wrong with GG13’s post but I knew immediately it wasn’t one of mine,

Apologies tickingbird I cut and pasted the wrong statement.
Yours should have been

You have Hamas to thank for that and of course Israel protects Israelis as it should. That’s their job.
As for slaughter we know who does that and doesn’t give any warnings they’re about to carry out a massacre and if they did issue warnings Israel wouldn’t stop their civilians leaving in order to use them as human shields.

In fact it is Israel who has closed the borders to Gaza
As I said some blame Palestinians for the deaths Israel is responsible for.

So the slaughtering of all these innocent people in Gaza is justified?

Very different scenario though Maybee70 and we had the support of a lot of Northern Irish people, intelligence officers and army were tipped off regularly as to where IRA members were.An awful conflict but a very different scene.