Israel and Palestine (thread 3)

What he has done, which I am pleased to hear, is the reasoning behind his decisions. He was succinct and detailed in his explanation.

I’m pleased with Keir Starmer’s speech too Whitewave. I thought his tone and content were measured, non-biased, calm & composed. He made perfect sense, unlike some of the more extreme, emotional commentators on the subject.

Will Hamas commit to a cease fire?

Starmer doing a speech backing Isreal's massacre, which is killing a Palistinian child once every 10 minutes.

A chant Starmers Shame. The Palistinians are human too.

Now outside KS speech Jewish protesters calling for a ceasefire in Gaza. Jews Against Genocide

I heard most of Starmer’s speech and the first question. He spoke clearly and set out his position well.

What he has done, which I am pleased to hear, is the reasoning behind his decisions. He was succinct and detailed in his explanation.

Whitewavemark2

Starmer making a speech about issue.

He is on the same page as the PM, not the right time to call for a ceasefire, but a humanitarian pause to enable aid to get to the civilian population of Gaza.

Starmer making a speech about issue.

They may quash Hamas (although I doubt they will) but another group will indubitably spring up. Quite agree that Israeli extremists must stop expanding into Palestinian territory.

Foxie
Katie59 Just to let you know that I didn't report your post but clearly I wasn't the only person who was concerned by what you had written. I feel it is very important to make a distinction between what is "political" and what is "religious.

I try to tell it like it is if others don’t like it tough, since Hamas was elected it has tried to attack Israel several times each time Israel has surrendered to international pressure only to be back to square one a few years later. That is not going to happen this time a permanent solution has to be found, that will not include Hamas or any other extremist group.

Israel will have to gain full control of Gaza because Palestinians have proved they cannot control the extremists. Israel will have control their own extremists the expansion of settlements has to stop

Utterly barbaric.

She was a German girl, I think.

There seem to be conflicting reports about whether or not she was beheaded, but she was killed by Hamas certainly. She was paraded naked or near naked in a truck, and her corpse was spat on by onlookers apparently. What happened to her was unspeakable, whether or not she was beheaded.
At least her parents now know what happened to her and that she is definitely dead. A sort of closure, but a very painful closure for them.

I saw that MerylStreep RIP

Terrible sad news for the parents of the beautiful young woman who was kidnapped from the festival and paraded naked on the back of a truck.
She has been beheaded 😥

I heard on the news that a ministerial aid has been sacked for calling for a ceasefire. I'm at a loss. Why should calling for peace lead to a losing your job? I think that a lot of people don't think that what's happening in Gaza is ok.

foxie48

He's actually quite a secular Jew but I notice he is using the bible to bolster his tactics. He's just concerned with saving himself and is completely without shame and yes, he will lead Israel into an even bigger mess than he's already created. I also heard that Israelis are leaving the illegal settlements in the West Bank because they are no longer protected by the IDF! They should never have been allowed to settle there in the first place. This is a dreadful situation which needs a political solution but clearly Netanyahu doesn't even have an exit strategy.

Yes. I noticed that he was using the bible. He’s making it a good against evil war. But he’s a bad bad man. Until recently he was friends with Putin wasn’t he?

It’s being reported by SKY that the IDF have freed a female Israeli soldier , who was taken hostage on 7/10 today during their operations in Gaza.

He's actually quite a secular Jew but I notice he is using the bible to bolster his tactics. He's just concerned with saving himself and is completely without shame and yes, he will lead Israel into an even bigger mess than he's already created. I also heard that Israelis are leaving the illegal settlements in the West Bank because they are no longer protected by the IDF! They should never have been allowed to settle there in the first place. This is a dreadful situation which needs a political solution but clearly Netanyahu doesn't even have an exit strategy.

I do hope you’re right foxie, it is such a worrying time. For us all, but especially for people, Muslim or Jew, who are being targeted by others with hate in their hearts.

I agree Maybee that it’s frightening. My opinion is that Israel will want to stick to its objectives of freeing the hostages and flattening Hamas. I hope I’m right, but none of us have a crystal ball.

Just listened to Netanyahu’s latest speech and it has really frightened me. Am I right in thinking that he is trying to draw the whole world into this war?’ It’s us against the barbarians’. And is it because public opinion within Israel seems to be that he needs to stand down? He was on the ropes before this war and he’s even more on the ropes now.

Katie59 Just to let you know that I didn't report your post but clearly I wasn't the only person who was concerned by what you had written. I feel it is very important to make a distinction between what is "political" and what is "religious". The freedoms we have in the UK are IMO less about Christianity and much more about living in a secular democracy. If you consider some countries which have political parties based on a religious affiliation, eg Poland, it can mean that religion becomes a limiting factor to democratic rights as in the Law and Justice party, which is strongly RC, changing access to abortions etc. India is another example
Maddyone For most people hate crimes are an anathema, sadly this is not true of us all and the rise in anti semitic hate crimes is vile but I honestly don't think that it means most people in the world have less empathy to the suffering of Jews. IMO it shows that there are people who will use any excuse to show hatred to others. There was a huge rise in Islamophobia after the Sept 11th attacks, not just in the US but in most western countries, thankfully it did settle down and hopefully this will also happen with anti semitic hate crimes. fwiw Islamophobic hate crimes have also increased but not to the same extent. It's all disgusting.

foxie48

Maddyone tbf I think many people think it's possible to have empathy for what happened to Israeli Jews whilst also having empathy for the plight of Palestinians living in Gaza. The criticism has been aimed at the Israeli Govt. There was an interview with the daughter of one of the released hostages on yesterday's radio 4 and even she had empathy for Palestinians. Surely the huge protest by Jews in New York which was asking for a ceasefire is also evidence of that.
Katie59 Would you care to evidence your statements regarding Jews, Muslims and Christians as IMHO it is this sort of stereotypical thinking that is at the heart of most prejudice?

The policies of western Christian countries are that multiculturalism is the order of the day, no discrimination, in fact positive discrimination is often done.

Muslim countries are far from the free way of life that they get in the UK. Israel is also far from the sectarian nation it should be, there will be no peace until everyone is given equality. It’s not going to happen overnight but that has got to be the aim.

Yesterday a huge mob in Russia stormed a plane which had just arrived from Israel, trying to find Jews and do what to them? Attack them?
A huge crowd in Sydney chanting’gas the Jews, gas the Jews.’
Even in Britain chants of from the river to the sea.
A British GP calling for jihadi on London streets on Saturday.
A British tube train driver chanting ‘free Palestine’ on a tube train in London
Shouts of ‘jihad’ on our streets from protesters
A huge rise in anti semitic attacks in Britain since 7/10
Rises in anti semitic attacks all over the world since 7/10

A lack of empathy or sympathy for the Jews killed in the most depraved manner is evident all over the world, but sadly in cities all over Britain.

Maddyone tbf I think many people think it's possible to have empathy for what happened to Israeli Jews whilst also having empathy for the plight of Palestinians living in Gaza. The criticism has been aimed at the Israeli Govt. There was an interview with the daughter of one of the released hostages on yesterday's radio 4 and even she had empathy for Palestinians. Surely the huge protest by Jews in New York which was asking for a ceasefire is also evidence of that.
Katie59 Would you care to evidence your statements regarding Jews, Muslims and Christians as IMHO it is this sort of stereotypical thinking that is at the heart of most prejudice?

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GrannyGravy13

Just done a quick Google regarding numbers of population following faiths, estimated world population is 7.9-8billion

14.8 million follow Judaism 0.2% of the worldwide population

1.8 billion follow Islam 24% of the worldwide population

2.36 billion follow Christianity 31.5% of the worldwide population

We have to ask ourselves why 0.2% of the world are still being persecuted today, why Jewish schools and places of worship need protection and are removing visible signs like the Star of David, why men are not wearing their skull caps (if they are wearing them in U.K. they have been advised to cover them) ?

Yes I think we do have to ask ourselves this question. We have to ask why so little sympathy/empathy was/is shown towards the Israeli population following the depraved progrom perpetrated on the inhabitants of the kibbutz and the music festival (ironically the peace festival) attended by so many young Jewish people three weeks ago. We have to ask how were the Israelis supposed to respond? How did Hamas think they would respond?