Israel and Palestine (thread 3)

Me again - why did Germany develop race laws? I never understood what was so wrong with Jewish people that they had to be eliminated.

PPS. I'm as familiar as anybody (possibly more than most) with Germany's 1930s race laws.

This is quite a long article but I think it is worth reading

www.972mag.com/october-war-israelis-palestinians-historic/

PS. I didn't have to read or look up on Google.

tickingbird

Growstuff

If it were genetics, Palestinians would have the same so-called characteristics. They share many genetic markers.

You’re wrong of course. Palestinians haven’t been persecuted through the ages; that’s not to say they aren’t at present though.

However, Jews have been persecuted by all and sundry for centuries. Therefore, there’s a collective consciousness which is not the case with the Palestinians,

You can read and look up on Google all you wish and will always find a piece to match your own point of view, doesn’t mean it’s correct.

On this forum I’ve recently been told I don’t have to be Jewish; I have a choice. I don’t of course; it’s a typical anti semitic response, conscious or otherwise. I provided a link I believe to Germany’s race laws at the time but, to be honest, it’s a waste of time. P*****g in the wind is the expression I believe.

No, I'm not wrong. It's not my "point of view" - it's a fact. Palestinians and Jews have almost identical genetic markers. Any "differences" between Jews and anybody else isn't genetic.

You really don't seem to understand the point I was making or genetics.

I know perfectly well that Palestinians (and other Arabs) haven't been persecuted throughout history in the same way Jews have been. There are all sorts of reasons for that, but it's not genetic.

*live should be *lives 😡

tickingbird I am sorry you are having a hard time in this thread (((hugs)))

I am not Jewish but our best friends are, they are worried for their children, grandchildren but particularly their elderly father who insists on wearing his kippa.

It is totally unacceptable for Jews in the U.K. to have their schools and places of worship protected by guards and children to be told not have their school uniform on show, or anyone to wear the Star of David round their necks.

None of the above prohibits me from feeling sad at the loss of live of innocent Palestinians who have not been protected by their elected representatives, Hamas.

Growstuff

If it were genetics, Palestinians would have the same so-called characteristics. They share many genetic markers.

You’re wrong of course. Palestinians haven’t been persecuted through the ages; that’s not to say they aren’t at present though.

However, Jews have been persecuted by all and sundry for centuries. Therefore, there’s a collective consciousness which is not the case with the Palestinians,

You can read and look up on Google all you wish and will always find a piece to match your own point of view, doesn’t mean it’s correct.

On this forum I’ve recently been told I don’t have to be Jewish; I have a choice. I don’t of course; it’s a typical anti semitic response, conscious or otherwise. I provided a link I believe to Germany’s race laws at the time but, to be honest, it’s a waste of time. P*****g in the wind is the expression I believe.

growstuff

Aveline

I know. I still don't understand why Jews are so unpopular around the world. They are a tiny minority but with disproportionate power it seems to me.

This is the kind of claim which contributes to anti-semitism.

A example of Jews Don’t Count and stereotyping was shown in the program last night.

A play was being rehearsed. The main protagonist was an illegal Mexican migrant who went on to be a not very nice billionaire.
Someone pointed out that using a Mexican migrant was stereotyping. So, they changed his name to Hershal Fink
That was ok with everyone 🤦🏼‍♀️ until the play was on stage and the proverbial hit the fan.
The Royal Courts excuse was, they didn’t know Hershal Fink was a Jewish name
www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-60575719

The Holocaust was the end result of decades of extreme nationalism throughout Europe and so-called social Darwinism, which claimed that the human race could be divided into separate "races" with some superior to others.

Jews were seen as having an international outlook and, therefore, not loyal to their nationality. Social Darwinism was based in northern Europe, so any people with ancestry elsewhere were seen as inferior.

In the Middle Ages, anti-semitism was linked with the Christian belief that Jews had murdered Christ.

The reasons for anti-semitism have shifted, but underlying them is a desire to "other" anybody not strictly conforming by creating scapegoats and Jews have been the victims of conspiracy theories.

Aveline

Why would people think that though Oreo? This is a genuine enquiry. It's something we've often wondered long before this latest event. I've never heard a satisfactory answer.

Because they have been bombarded with stereotypes, myths and conspiracy theories by people looking for scapegoats. Jews were excluded from public office and many professions, so they tended to find other ways to be successful and built up collaborative networks to support each other because society in general discriminated against them. They have been "othered" throughout history.

Why would people think that though Oreo? This is a genuine enquiry. It's something we've often wondered long before this latest event. I've never heard a satisfactory answer.

Aveline

Thanks others for your responses. It seems quite true that they would share the same genetic markers as Palestinians as growstuff says. It still seems odd how unpopular they have appeared to be throughout the centuries.

tbh I think a better to try to understand racism and prejudice of any kind by asking ourselves what it says about humans in general. I see so many people write or say, "I'm not racist but" and then come out with some stereotypical comment which "others" people and puts them in a bad light. There is no such thing as a typical Jew, Muslim, Christian, Hindu etc. We can look at the basic tenets of a religion but that still says very little about how people actually live their life and view the world and people around them. For me, and it's a personal view, racism is about a fear of losing out to people with whom you don't identify. That's why it is such a useful political weapon as it can be used to bond people together against others and that's a powerful thing. Just use some of the trigger words, (and they are frequently used in posts on GN) put them into what sounds a reasonable argument and bingo, you have put people against each other. That's a bit simplistic but it's all around us!

Every country has its conscientious objectors, including Israel, there's nothing new in that or strange. We certainly did in both world wars both ,before and since. It doesn't mean a whole nation is unwilling to defend itself in times of great danger, or that it shouldn't.

Grany

Did you see the video of the Jewish young woman living in Israel who did not want to join the IDF she is a conscientious objector so was imprisoned at 19 for 4 months. She grew up near the Palestinians and could see that they have no rights, no authority they could turn to, living under military occupation. They are treated badly by the IDF as an Israeli she was treated well, she did not want to contribute to their suffering by joining the IDF. She is asking everyone to call for a ceasefire. She said Israel is committing war crimes a revenge attack genocide. This is not helping Israeli people or Palestinians to live in peace. She blames UK and USA for political and military aid keeping the conflict going. I agree you don't find peace by bombing innocent people.

What does this prove Grany ? She is a conscientious objector so obvs refuses to do military training. So what?
She may not have been so anti violence tho if cornered by hamas, or her family had been.

It is where “othering” gets you and why it should be so strongly resisted by everyone.

Every word matters.

growstuff

Aveline

I know. I still don't understand why Jews are so unpopular around the world. They are a tiny minority but with disproportionate power it seems to me.

This is the kind of claim which contributes to anti-semitism.

You answered that before I could.
It’s the same old stereotyping of Jewish people as being covert, sly and pulling strings behind the scenes.

Thanks others for your responses. It seems quite true that they would share the same genetic markers as Palestinians as growstuff says. It still seems odd how unpopular they have appeared to be throughout the centuries.

Aveline

I know. I still don't understand why Jews are so unpopular around the world. They are a tiny minority but with disproportionate power it seems to me.

This is the kind of claim which contributes to anti-semitism.

maddyone

No! Didn’t see it.

Here is the video * maddyone*

She is interview by Owen Jones you may not like him I don’t know but that does not detract from what this young Jewish woman is saying.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=rJZse8sPOn8&pp=ygUKb3dlbiBqb25lcw%3D%3D

tickingbird

Apart from good, old fashioned bigotry and prejudice, one of the main reasons Jews are hated is because, for such a small minority and the many terrible injustices suffered by them, they are, in the main, successful.

There are Jews in the media, commerce, entertainment, sciences, literature etc and they shine. They have oft been called ‘The Chosen Ones.

Now I don’t subscribe to that belief but there is a collective consciousness among Jews to rise above if you like. When there is a shared ancestry of persecution going down the centuries maybe a genetic link impels such a drive. It’s not about greed, it’s survival.

If it were genetics, Palestinians would have the same so-called characteristics. They share many genetic markers.

No! Didn’t see it.

Did you see the video of the Jewish young woman living in Israel who did not want to join the IDF she is a conscientious objector so was imprisoned at 19 for 4 months. She grew up near the Palestinians and could see that they have no rights, no authority they could turn to, living under military occupation. They are treated badly by the IDF as an Israeli she was treated well, she did not want to contribute to their suffering by joining the IDF. She is asking everyone to call for a ceasefire. She said Israel is committing war crimes a revenge attack genocide. This is not helping Israeli people or Palestinians to live in peace. She blames UK and USA for political and military aid keeping the conflict going. I agree you don't find peace by bombing innocent people.

silverlining48

I didn’t know about the dam fleur, just another land grab.

Another example is Silwan, a Palestinian village where 150 families have been turned out of their homes and land for it to be turned into an Israeli theme park.
To be powerless in such situations leads to understandable anger and frustration.

So sorry, the Ben Gurion project is NOT A DAM, but an alternative to the Suez CANAL. Wider, deeper and run by Western powers, NOT the Egyptians (aka 'the Arabs' as seen by Netanyahu and Western Powers).

maddyone
Well that would explain that then wouldn’t it!
I don’t know why anyone takes any notice of these self important commentators.

I don’t Maddy but others seem to hang onto their every word. She’s very young and doesn’t look long out of university so why are her opinions worth anymore than anyone else’s?