Israel and Palestine (thread 3)

A week ago
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/20/israel-palestinians-egypt-west-bombs-rafah-border-crossing

maddyone

Glorianny have you got a hotline to the Israeli government? You appear to know exactly what their objectives are.

I think it was in the Guardian yesterday

I think and fervently hope that the right wing and Natenyahu will not survive this, and a left of centre government with a much more reasoned and sensible/no -violent approach will be voted in.

Mind you no one has yet a plan for when the hostilities cease.

A two state solution as has been agreed previously with the borders back to pre-1967 is the only way imo.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202310/medium-541108-telemmglpict000354669464-16984792343970-trans-nvbqzqnjv4bqrni-thqhz2jifkm3gxdikilqiceey-ezs7ff3iudyrq.jpeg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202310/medium-702558-telemmglpict000354669253-16984793136160-trans-nvbqzqnjv4bqknohhak3qscd7pcsbx4lceywycia-a6j0rawwtogeli.jpeg

You beat me to it Grany This is on Telegraph online, thank goodness the media is showing Jewish people asking for a ceasefire, we need to understand how divided the situation in Israel really is. Many Jews want a proper two party state and are horrified by what has been happening in Israel.

Rabbis launched the event by lighting Shabbat candles and reciting the Jewish prayer for the dead, known as the kaddish.
“While Shabbat is typically a day of rest, we cannot afford to rest while genocide is unfolding in our names,” said Rabbi May Ye, in a statement released by organisers.
“The lives of Palestinians and Israelis are intertwined, and safety can only come from justice, equality, and freedom for all,” the rabbi said.

UK arms sales to Israel 2016-2020 worth £387million .
That's our stuff being used on Palestinians
caat.org.uk/data/countries/israel/
The US has supplied over $53 billions worth in the last 2 decades
www.calcalistech.com/ctechnews/article/b1cd0z3b6

Now why don't they want a ceasefire?

Jewish people in America arrested for calling for a ceasefire in Gaza

It is utterly shameful UK abstained on a Gaza ceasefire along with the other warmonger nation America their partner in crime.

Starmer asked S Khan while discussing ceasefire to abstain
Khan refused along with a few others in labour.

War crimes, genocide happening now to Palestinians

There is a video of crowds shouting F Starmer I think this will be what people will be shouting on further Not In My Name calls for a ceasefire in Gaza. He is likely our next PM of the Labour Party.

People have learnt a lot since Blair and Iraq war, young people have grown up and expect more from our government You don’t go selling arms arming terrorist states, there is a more peaceful way other countries are showing.Warmongers like Biden and Starmer better take note.

They'll be another wandering tribe. Now who would that be like?

I’m pretty sure Israel would be happy to give Gaza To Egypt wholesale, problem is they don’t want anything to do with Palestinians because they would cause just as much unrest within Egypt.
The same applies to Jordan and the West Bank they also see the Palestinians as dangerous extremists

Do you regard that as proof Glorrianny?

I’m obviously in a minority then, but I’ve read too much here, even on Gransnet, about some of the horrible stuff posted on Twitter, so I won’t be signing up anytime soon. I’ve read about death threats made on Twitter regularly, perhaps it needs to be regulated properly.

maddyone

Glorianny have you got a hotline to the Israeli government? You appear to know exactly what their objectives are.

www.declassifieduk.org/israels-long-held-plan-to-drive-gazas-people-into-sinai-is-now-within-reach
From the article
In response to the Israeli media leaks of 2014, an official close to former president Hosni Mubarak admitted that the screws had been turned on him in 2007 to agree to annex Gaza.

Five years later, according to the same source, Mohamed Morsi, who led a short-lived Muslim Brotherhood government, sent a delegation to Washington. There, the Americans proposed that “Egypt cede a third of the Sinai to Gaza in a two-stage process spanning four to five years”. Morsi too refused.

Oh absolutely but the mainstream media absolutely played a part in what has happened, they completely missed what was happening, I would have defended the BBC with my last breath I think, I am not sure I feel like that anymore.
I have quite a love hate relationship with Twitter and it is tribal.

Galaxy

Also all of the traditional media outlets have Twitter accounts.

Yes, they do and I find Twitter (X) really useful, but it's a whole new world. People are bombarded with information and need to be selective. It's very easy to be influenced or to find yourself in an echo chamber. It's going be even more crucial that people become "media aware" when AI really takes off.

Galaxy you beat me to it, all media have an X account, as does all U.K. Government Depts, The PM, most MP’s The Leader of the Opposition, Royal Family members, NHS, Police Forces etc. etc.

Unfortunately it is possible to get caught out sometimes, the screen shot I posted was on an official approved account otherwise I would have just scrolled past

Also all of the traditional media outlets have Twitter accounts.

I have had this discussion elsewhere but people arent seeking information from traditional media now, and that is partly dilie to the behaviour of some of those media outlets. That ship sailed long ago.

Glorianny have you got a hotline to the Israeli government? You appear to know exactly what their objectives are.

I don’t understand why anyone looks for their information on Twitter/X or whatever it’s called now.
Mainstream media is reliable on the whole to inform us what is happening and we can all make our own minds up.

I posted earlier why Israel are bombing Gaza. They hope eventually Egypt will open the crossing and the Palestinians will leave Gaza and move into Sinai. They then think that future generations will forget Palestine and become exiles registering as Egyptians or moving to other countries. Sadly they haven't looked at history. We starved thousands of Irish, exiled thousands more, killed their language and their culture and occupied some of their land. They still reemerged in 1916.

foxie48

growstuff

"habibi_uk" has an interesting Twitter profile and posting history! It's a classic trolling account.

Yes, that is what I thought! People should be very careful about what the post and only post from reliable sources. It was a very inflammatory piece and I very much doubted it's validity.

I've reported it to Twitter, not that anything will be done. In the space of a couple of days, there have been hundreds of videos and inflammatory posts. It has to be some kind of organised bot, given the frequency of posts over a very short timespan.

growstuff

"habibi_uk" has an interesting Twitter profile and posting history! It's a classic trolling account.

Yes, that is what I thought! People should be very careful about what the post and only post from reliable sources. It was a very inflammatory piece and I very much doubted it's validity.

Vintagewhine

Netanyahu allowed Hamas to become stronger because it suited him. Better to have Hamas and Fatah in conflict with a weak PA. There is strong evidence he was told Hamas was planning something but he still moved 2000 IDF people from protecting the Gaza border to the West Bank to protect illegal Israeli settlers. He miscalculated and Gaza is paying the price. He didn't care about the Israelis living in Kibbutz near Gaza because many of them are not supportive of him or his nasty extreme right wing government. The more people understand about this terrible conflict the less likely they are to support what is being done to Palestinian people living in Gaza. This is not because they are Anti semitic it's because they are people who are capable of empathy. I don't support Hamas, I find their behaviour abhorrent but I do begin to understanding why they are able to recruit young Palestinian men. They use the same tactics that any terrorist or criminal group uses. They offer them "hope", a purpose, a place to grow, support. The Israeli govt has been totally complicit in allowing this to happen.

I agree with you.

Katie59

growstuff

And don't forget that the occupation of Germany and Japan only lasted a very short time (apart from East Germany).

Yes, but Gaza is part of Israel and in any case is not a self sustainable region it relies on support from elsewhere.

Well, yes, that's the issue - Gaza is part of Israel!

Cadenza123

I don't understand why there's not more support for a ceasefire. The UK and the US abstained in the UN vote requesting an immediate ceasefire. We know that there's a huge amount of children suffering right now. Why the political silence?

One suspects only the Israelis would cease fire and Hamas would simply continue to rocket Israel.