Starmer’s Dilemma Over Palestinian Situation

Callistemon21

^Concentration camp^ is an emotive term, and its use in these circumstances is very debatable.
To describe Gaza as such is probably designed to taunt Jewish people who well know what a real concentration camp is like.

I fear you have hit the nail firmly on the head

I find this description repeatedly being used by Grany offensive and utterly disgusting.

Concentration camp is an emotive term, and its use in these circumstances is very debatable.
To describe Gaza as such is probably designed to taunt Jewish people who well know what a real concentration camp is like.

But talking helps bring peace a settlement
continuing wars make more terrorists, countries have to go down the route of talks if there is to be a settlement for both Israel and Palestine. Continuing the war does not help Palestine or Israel

Grany

Calistemon Gazens are living in a concentration camp occupation and apartheid by Israel The bombs need to stop a ceasefire so peace negotiations can begin. In NI after years of fighting negotiations between the two sides brought peace. I know the attack by Hamas needs to be condemned and there are atrocities on both sides but continuing a war killing more Palestinians including women and children will not solve anything. Many people in many countries are calling for a ceasefire now to stop this awful killing of innocents.

Your repeated posts calling Gaza a concentration camp illustrates that you have absolutely no idea what a concentration camp actually is.

It is an insult to the memories of hundreds of thousands of Jews killed in the Holocaust and more recently those who were killed along with those liberated from concentration camps during the war in the Balkans.

Hamas has fuel but won't give it for hospital use. It's to use for the tunnels and to fire rockets at Israeli towns. Israelis are living in shelters. Their children are traumatised too.
Gaza was handed over to the Palestinians as a thriving area. Export of flowers had been the earner. Hamas destroyed the buildings and foliage. They began to attack Israeli areas and so fences were put up. They used the huge amount of funding they got to build tunnels and buy weapons. They ran welfare programmes at first and after they settled in put military installations under schools, hospitals etc, They do not want 2 states. Just one and no Jews. Fuel WAS sent in yesterday but some was taken by Hamas. Although the Palestinians said no fuel for the hospitals the rockets never stopped landing on Israel. Although some did land on Palestinian areas too, killing them.

I didn't say there shouldn't be a ceasefire, Grany
If you read my posts you will see that is what I hope will happen.
The hostages must be released.
Both sides are being intransigent.

NI and Israel-Palestine isn’t really comparable

Calistemon Gazens are living in a concentration camp occupation and apartheid by Israel The bombs need to stop a ceasefire so peace negotiations can begin. In NI after years of fighting negotiations between the two sides brought peace. I know the attack by Hamas needs to be condemned and there are atrocities on both sides but continuing a war killing more Palestinians including women and children will not solve anything. Many people in many countries are calling for a ceasefire now to stop this awful killing of innocents.

Yes. I think most of us do.

I think there are some aspects of all this that you are not getting, though, Grany

Gaza is 25 miles long and 6 miles wide.

It is home to 1 million catastrophically traumatised children.

They have no water or food.

Israel’s dropped explosives on them equal to 1.5 Hiroshima atomic bombs. In 3 weeks.

Do you get the enormity of the crime we are witnessing yet?

Casdon

If they want a ceasefire why don’t Hammas hand back the Israeli hostages Grany?

That has to be done through diplomacy negotiations peacetalks on all sides war only makes more terrorists it solves nothing.

Iam64

robib - Starmer has always supported Sunak’s position which is to ask the Israeli government to pause the bombing to allow humanitarian aid into Gaza. How you can dismiss this as gesture politics is beyond me.

Burnley, like many other former mill towns has a large community of Muslims, many of Pakistani heritage. All the former mill towns in the north west have seen pro Palestinian demonstrations recently. Meanwhile in Manchester, the Jewish community arranges silent vigils, no banners, no shouting - silence for peace

Agree Iam. It's ether no steps forward or small and useful ones like a pause. Starmer and Sunak do not have a choice on this. Talking pie in the sky helps no-one at this point.

Grany how do these millions of people propose a ceasefire would work - in real life, practical terms?

Grany

Barry Gardener disagrees with KS stance on Israel Palestine
He says more wars doesn't sove anything. There should be a peaceful solution
Politics Joe youtube short Interview

But neither you, or Barry Gardener, are Leader of the Labour Party, Grany. Just two people intent, it appears, on undermining his leadership.

Any leader will have much more to think about than a knee-jerk reaction. Anyone who cares, will not jump for the easy solution of blaming someone else and calling for what seems like an obvious and easy solution, but is actually a solution which is not actually possible to achieve yet.

Grany since when have governments listened to millions of people?
And which millions do they listen to? Pro Israel or pro Palestine?

If they want a ceasefire why don’t Hammas hand back the Israeli hostages Grany?

They backed Netanyahu so he has support from USA UK also they arm Israel
Western governments should listen to calls from millions of people calling for a ceasefire

Iam64 depends on how you view the idea of gesture politics? There’s no reason for the Israeli government to listen to any advice from the Uk, USA or Europe etc. We have no authority over Israel nor Gaza for that matter. It isn’t our battle to fight.
To my way of thinking neither Sunak nor Starmer have any influence over the course of events. It’s all gesturing and no one has stopped to think about its very limited value to the people involved.
Meanwhile a lot of damage is happening to communities in this country and that’s unacceptable.

robib - Starmer has always supported Sunak’s position which is to ask the Israeli government to pause the bombing to allow humanitarian aid into Gaza. How you can dismiss this as gesture politics is beyond me.

Burnley, like many other former mill towns has a large community of Muslims, many of Pakistani heritage. All the former mill towns in the north west have seen pro Palestinian demonstrations recently. Meanwhile in Manchester, the Jewish community arranges silent vigils, no banners, no shouting - silence for peace

Barry Gardener disagrees with KS stance on Israel Palestine
He says more wars doesn't sove anything. There should be a peaceful solution
Politics Joe youtube short Interview

Unsurprisingly Israel has just rejected a humanitarian ceasefire until the hostages have been released and returned.

A humanitarian pause to allow aid into Gaza and to help evacuate civilians to safety if possible - yes of course. This is not for a very long period and then the war continues. There are no solutions just now . Just endless death.

I don’t understand what you meant in the context of Starmer’s statement today though ronib, in what way do you think what he said was ‘to pacify the Labour Party’ that he hadn’t said already?

ronib

Latest on KS - calling for a humanitarian pause in Gaza. Will this be heeded by the main players?
Gesture politics to pacify the Labour Party?

Sir Starmer’s stance has been consistent with asking for a humanitarian pause it is in line with the Government.

Casdon we in the UK can pontificate as much as we like - one minute it’s no we can’t have a humanitarian ceasefire and the next minute it’s yes let’s have one. As if Israel is going to take the slightest notice of our instructions. This to my mind is gesture politics.