Starmer’s Dilemma Over Palestinian Situation

Iam64

One is political, the other is terrorist—— now, where have we heard that before

I don’t know, but that’s a fatuous argument. When things go wrong here people blame the party responsible.
They don’t say for example, there are some really good members of the Conservatives party. They hold the party responsible.

Iam64

One is political, the other is terrorist—— now, where have we heard that before

Are you trying in some roundabout way to refer to the IRA and Sinn Fein Iam64? well you could include in N. Ireland the DUP and Loyalist paramilitaries. But why not? A way of looking how terrorism can become political.
The IRA was founded in 1919.
Hamas was founded in 1987
If it takes as long to reach a peace agreement as it did in N.Ireland there will be many more years of terrorist attacks.

One is political, the other is terrorist—— now, where have we heard that before

Any excuse for Hamas actions Glorianny.

Grany

The French President is calling on Israel to stop bombing women and children called for a ceasefire Asked if Britain and America should call a ceasefire he said I would hope so.
Thats all.

French President Emmanuel Macron has called on Israel to stop bombing and killing women and babies in Gaza.

Mr Macron called for a humanitarian ceasefire in the region.

“I think there is no justification precisely to attack civilians,” Mr Macron told the BBC.

“De facto, today civilians are bombed, de facto, there’s babies, there’s ladies, there’s old people are bombed and killed.

“There is no reason for that and no legitimacy. So we do urge Israel to stop”

Asked if he was disappointed the United States and the UK were not joining him in a call for ceasefire, he said: “No, I hope they will”.

“I think it is very important to see the whole story, but I think this is the only solution we have, this ceasefire,” he said.

Since Hamas militants attacked Israel on October 7, Gaza officials said the territory’s death toll has surpassed 11,000 while more than 100,000 Palestinians have fled south over the past two days, according to Israel.''

Mollygo

Yet another non answer from Glorianny.

I did acknowledge what else she said, but when I asked, are you really disagreeing when I say that it isn’t odd to say that Hamas is a terrorist organisation?
She doesn’t answer.
Maybe you don’t think they’re a terrorist organisation Glorianny, but they are.

Sorry I don't spend 24 hours a day on this.
Hamas has two branches.
One is terrorist, the other is a political party.

Yet another non answer from Glorianny.

I did acknowledge what else she said, but when I asked, are you really disagreeing when I say that it isn’t odd to say that Hamas is a terrorist organisation?
She doesn’t answer.
Maybe you don’t think they’re a terrorist organisation Glorianny, but they are.

Casdon I agree with you about plagiarism but there seems to be so much being written and reported just now and some of it quite fanciful- depending on core values, how factual or reliable is any of it?
Although at the moment, this stream of information and misinformation is becoming increasingly difficult to digest. Self preservation is bound to kick in and turning away is all that is left.

Mollygo

*It's just plain odd to say that Hamas is a terrorist organisation*
No it isn’t odd, whatever you follow it up with.
Hamas is a terrorist organisation.

So Israel funds a terrorist organisation. So the are guilty of yet another crime under International law
the provision, collection or receipt of funds with the intent or knowledge that the funds will be used to carry out an act of terrorism or any act intended to cause death or serious bodily injury.

ronib

Does anyone apply a burden of proof to the comments that are posted? There seems to be a practice of quoting a paper, or reference as if it were reliable, truthful and authentic. How is information filtered and found to be reliable and accurate before being posted?

I don’t have a problem with people quoting from publications as long as they state the source, as we can all check ourselves for accuracy and political bent of the publications. More serious is plagiarising other people’s work and not even acknowledging that you have done so. I just typed the first sentence of Grany’s post above into Google, and the whole first paragraph is plagiarised. It is really not on to do that.

Does anyone apply a burden of proof to the comments that are posted? There seems to be a practice of quoting a paper, or reference as if it were reliable, truthful and authentic. How is information filtered and found to be reliable and accurate before being posted?

Wow! Glorianny, you actually managed to respond instead of doing your usual.
I did acknowledge what else you said, (whatever you follow it up with) but are you really disagreeing when I say that it isn’t odd to say that Hamas is a terrorist organisation? They are.

Fleurpepper

President Macron has made a clear request for a cease-fire, saying he hopes others will join him, including the UK and the USA.

And made very clear that the indiscriminate bombing of civilians is ILLEGAL.

Sadly looks like UK following warmongers USA won’t ask for a ceasefire to stop indiscriminate killing of civilians, they both shamelessly heavily arm and support Netanyahu Israel state.

Mollygo

*It's just plain odd to say that Hamas is a terrorist organisation*
No it isn’t odd, whatever you follow it up with.
Hamas is a terrorist organisation.

Oh dear Mollygo you are so desperate to disagree with me that you have to change what I said by cutting it.
That isn't odd it's pitiful.
Try the whole thing
It's just plain odd to say that Hamas is a terrorist organisation but it was OK for Israel to facilitate money being passed to them
There now, could you try expressing an opinion on that?

It's just plain odd to say that Hamas is a terrorist organisation
No it isn’t odd, whatever you follow it up with.
Hamas is a terrorist organisation.

President Macron has made a clear request for a cease-fire, saying he hopes others will join him, including the UK and the USA.

And made very clear that the indiscriminate bombing of civilians is ILLEGAL.

It's well lnow BN funds Hamas so that there is no chance of a Palistinians state. You choose to believe BN did kot fund Hamas. Don't you know Netanyahu is corrupt and his ministers? He is committing war crimes. Genocide, occupation and apartheid Women babies are being bombed and he pretends he's the victim its horrorific

Callistemon21

Grany

While everyone who opposes genocide is called a “Hamas supporter”, the genocide supporters overlook how Benjamin Netanyahu helped funnel up to $1 billion of Qatari money to Hamas. In the UK, you can get arrested for terrorism for praising Hamas, but send Hamas money and Rishi Sunak will praise you. Why is no one calling Netanyahu a Hamas supporter when he financially supported them?

Saudi Prince, Turki bin Faisal, said this last month:

"I condemn Hamas for sabotaging the attempt of Saudi Arabia to reach a peaceful resolution to the plight of the Palestinian people.

“I condemn Israel for funnelling Qatari money to Hamas.”

CBC reports that Netanyahu literally begged the Qataris to keep sending the money for Hamas. Ehud Barak told Israel Army Radio, Netanyahu’s strategy was to “keep Hamas alive and kicking.” The aim was to ensure Israel could push the line that it has “no partner for peace”, but not everyone was on board with this strategy.

Netanyahu’s former education minister, Naftali Bennett, denounced the suitcases of Qatari cash and insisted they must stop. The head of Israel’s defence ministry, Avigdor Liberman, resigned, saying it was: “the first time Israel is funding terrorism against itself.”

It seems clear that Netanyahu and Hamas need each other. We’re at the point where opposing the man who funnelled $1 billion to Hamas makes you a Hamas supporter, but not him. It’s scary how the people who say this can’t see how deranged they seem to anyone with a moral compass.

True or False?

The money was intended for the people of Gaza but somehow found its way to Hamas and was not used for food, fuel and medicines for the people.

And yet you still manage to blame the Israelis, Grany, in yet another post which could be construed by some as anti-semitic.

Actually the money was to pay the salaries of the people employed by the Hamas government which controlled Gaza. Israel was well aware of who it was going to.
Now you can take one of two attitudes on this.
That Hamas as the legitimate government of Gaza were just being helped out with Israel's encouragement.
or
Hamas a terrorist organisation was funded with Israel's full knowledge.

It doesn't really matter. It's just plain odd to say that Hamas is a terrorist organisation but it was OK for Israel to facilitate money being passed to them.
edition.cnn.com/2018/11/11/middleeast/gaza-qatar-humanitarian-intl/index.html

Grany

While everyone who opposes genocide is called a “Hamas supporter”, the genocide supporters overlook how Benjamin Netanyahu helped funnel up to $1 billion of Qatari money to Hamas. In the UK, you can get arrested for terrorism for praising Hamas, but send Hamas money and Rishi Sunak will praise you. Why is no one calling Netanyahu a Hamas supporter when he financially supported them?

Saudi Prince, Turki bin Faisal, said this last month:

"I condemn Hamas for sabotaging the attempt of Saudi Arabia to reach a peaceful resolution to the plight of the Palestinian people.

“I condemn Israel for funnelling Qatari money to Hamas.”

CBC reports that Netanyahu literally begged the Qataris to keep sending the money for Hamas. Ehud Barak told Israel Army Radio, Netanyahu’s strategy was to “keep Hamas alive and kicking.” The aim was to ensure Israel could push the line that it has “no partner for peace”, but not everyone was on board with this strategy.

Netanyahu’s former education minister, Naftali Bennett, denounced the suitcases of Qatari cash and insisted they must stop. The head of Israel’s defence ministry, Avigdor Liberman, resigned, saying it was: “the first time Israel is funding terrorism against itself.”

It seems clear that Netanyahu and Hamas need each other. We’re at the point where opposing the man who funnelled $1 billion to Hamas makes you a Hamas supporter, but not him. It’s scary how the people who say this can’t see how deranged they seem to anyone with a moral compass.

True or False?

The money was intended for the people of Gaza but somehow found its way to Hamas and was not used for food, fuel and medicines for the people.

And yet you still manage to blame the Israelis, Grany, in yet another post which could be construed by some as anti-semitic.

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny you have perfected the art of assigning words to peoples posts that were not there.

Please do let me know where I have posted

all terrorists are uneducated and indoctrinated

I actually said that some are indoctrinated from birth which is true in many countries around the world.

I’ll wait.

Glorianny you have perfected the art of assigning words to peoples posts that were not there.

Please do let me know where I have posted

all terrorists are uneducated and indoctrinated

I actually said that some are indoctrinated from birth which is true in many countries around the world.

GrannyGravy13

Actually it is not a silly statement as you put it.

You can cut and paste/post links as much as you like however, the bottom line is terrorists are not likely to read any of the papers on them or their causes.

Not all terrorists are poverty stricken, those at the top and middle are as a rule extremely wealthy through drugs, people trafficking and any other illegal means they care to operate.

The foot soldiers are indoctrinated, some from birth that the West is the route of all their ills, and the only way forward is to eliminate those who do not follow their God or laws.

Oh my goodness! So you think that all terrorists are uneducated and indoctrinated. Well the first rule of any organisation is know your enemy, so some of the leaders will undoubtedly have read all the western research.
Of course not all terrorists are poverty stricken, but the evidence is there. Poverty, lack of opportunity combined with unequal treatment lead to terrorism recruitment. Only dealing with those issues can resolve that.

If you had bothered to read the paper I linked to you would also have realised that terrorism is not confined to Islam and that the highest growth of terrorism in the West is from the far right.

Actually it is not a silly statement as you put it.

You can cut and paste/post links as much as you like however, the bottom line is terrorists are not likely to read any of the papers on them or their causes.

Not all terrorists are poverty stricken, those at the top and middle are as a rule extremely wealthy through drugs, people trafficking and any other illegal means they care to operate.

The foot soldiers are indoctrinated, some from birth that the West is the route of all their ills, and the only way forward is to eliminate those who do not follow their God or laws.

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny

GrannyGravy13

Apart from the IRA (excluding the so called New IRA who are raising their heads) are there any terrorist organisations that have adhered to negotiations in recent times?

There's an interesting report about terrorism it says about ways of preventing its growth
Influence over society and its governance is the most important factor that determines the size, longevity,and success of a terrorist group. Programs and policies that reduce the influence of groups will have the most power to disrupt terror networks.

In order to disrupt recruitment by terrorist groups,nations need to address both recruitment methods and motivation.

To address the motivations to join a terrorist group,both social and economic inclusion need to be promoted
You can read it here visionofhumanity.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/GTI-2020-web-1.pdf.

Not sure, Hezbollah, Hamas, ISIS, Taliban or any other extreme terrorist organisation has read the memo Glorianny

What a silly statement about such an important issue. Terrorists are recruited, the reasons why they are recruited are well known. Gaza fits the profile exactly. Changing social and economic conditions and promoting inclusion stop terrorist recruitment. Deaths and bombings don't.

Iam64

Another misrepresentation of Starmer’s position by Gloryanny

Could you explain exactly how?
This is a detailed analysis of Starmer's position on Israel/Palestine before the war and how it conflicts with Labour party policy decided by votes at conference.
tribunemag.co.uk/2022/04/keir-starmer-labour-party-israel-apartheid-palestine-amnesty-report-jewish-chronicle

Sadly even the deaths of 10,000 has failed to shift his position. It isn't anyone in the Labour party's fault that they have a leader who has aligned himself with a far right government which practises apartheid.