Covid Inquiry

DiamondLily

Ah well, it's all clear now. Johnson was set up by a "dark arts" cabal, led by Cummings and Gove.

According to Nadine Dorries...🙄

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12708657/Sex-parties-ruthless-Tory-clique-secretly-make-break-Prime-Ministers-Revealed-Nadine-Dorries-bombshell-book-assassins-wanted-Boris-No-10-straight-landslide.html

According to Nadine Dorries ...🙄

There's probably a element truth in that but what it means in fact is that they were all working against each other, undermining one another and not as a team for the good of the country.

Ah well, it's all clear now. Johnson was set up by a "dark arts" cabal, led by Cummings and Gove.

According to Nadine Dorries...🙄

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12708657/Sex-parties-ruthless-Tory-clique-secretly-make-break-Prime-Ministers-Revealed-Nadine-Dorries-bombshell-book-assassins-wanted-Boris-No-10-straight-landslide.html

What is emerging from this Inquiry is a picture which is so contradictory to the belief that Johnson was "doing his best".

The allegations / revelations / are so awful, so bloody depressingly awful. They reveal not only the chaos in government under Johnson's captainship - but the culmination of years of privatisation and spending cuts in the health sector.

In May 2020 the senior CS, Mark Sedwill, sent a note stating the the Department of Health and Social Care was not structured or resourced to deal with a public health crisis of this magnitude...

"it straddles the byzantine bureaucracy of the post-Lansley NHS, the underpowered Public Health England and the fragmented public/private provision of social care."

... that fragmented social care system meant that thousands of vulnerable elderly people were stuck in hospitals as the pandemic approached, he said.

Years and years of underfunding, cuts, re-organisation, and the refusal to deal with the problem of social-care - not to mention Brexit which, it must have been anticipated, would result in the loss of human resources within the NHS, resulted in "old people" stuck in hospital beds.

Johnson's witness statement blames the decision to impose a national lockdown (March 2020) on the NHS for "failing to grip" the problem of bed-blocking.

Let this just sink in. Johnson is blaming the NHS - those that administer and work in it - for the bed-blocking caused by successive Tory governments' privatisation and cost-cutting in the health and social care sector. It has long been known that elderly and other vulnerable people are stuck in hospital beds because there is nowhere for them to go and not enough resources to provide for them in their own homes. But according to Johnson, this is the fault of the NHS.

Prior to this (February 2020) - as the pandemic was becoming an obvious crisis - Johnson chose to go on holiday, "to work on his Shakespeare book"... alleges Cummings. Apparently, he - Johnson - didn't think Covid was a 'big deal' and would be like "swine flu".

Whether Johnson did or didn't work on his book, who knows, these are allegations made by Cummings, but he did damned well go on holiday. I have no reverence for Cummings - he was a bloody Svengali character.

I've stopped reading about it for the while. It's dominating my thoughts and making me depressed, and so very angry.

I remember BJ's father Stanley being interviewed on tv. He as asked if he would be following the rules and replied jovially that no, he would be heading for the pub that night.

None of what is coming out surprises me.

I love the piece on here that says he couldn't even run a whelk stall !! So very true.

MayBee70

Will they have to call him Sir at the enquiry ?

Aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrggggggggghhhhhhhh!

Will they have to call him Sir at the enquiry ?

MaizieD

^I was there, and the issue at the beginning was that high protection masks were not available.^

And there was Simon Stevens telling us yesterday that PPE was fine...

Even so, why weren't the public told about aerosols until a long time into the pandemic, and even then nothing much was made of their significance?

In fact, I'd ask, (not you, Casdon, because I know you can't do anything about it) in view of the fact that covid is far from over and is still highly transmissible, why aren't our children in schools better protected with good air filtration devices? I note that the Houses of Parliament got state of the art air filtration installed...

Why indeed?!

Apparently Williamson didn't want masks worn in schools because it would look like giving in to the unions.

There was so much dishonesty about schools and pupils it made me soooooo angry. The government's response was to get the media to demonise teachers.

If decent air filtration systems had been installed, the disruption to schools could have been minimised. Schools were promised laptops for pupils who did have to stay at home, but most of them never materialised.

Is Gavin Williamson being called as a witness to the inquiry? If he is, I'll put the date in my diary now.

MaizieD

^I see that she has already given evidence to the Inquiry, I shall have to check if masking was mentioned and what she said about it.^

I can't find that Harris has given evidence. The article I got the info. from must have been confused.

I shall be interested to hear what she says.

And yes, you're right, we were getting mixed messages - along with all the conspiracy theories that were emerging.

Gosh, it was an awful time wasn't it?

I was there, and the issue at the beginning was that high protection masks were not available.

And there was Simon Stevens telling us yesterday that PPE was fine...

Even so, why weren't the public told about aerosols until a long time into the pandemic, and even then nothing much was made of their significance?

In fact, I'd ask, (not you, Casdon, because I know you can't do anything about it) in view of the fact that covid is far from over and is still highly transmissible, why aren't our children in schools better protected with good air filtration devices? I note that the Houses of Parliament got state of the art air filtration installed...

PS. I still haven't had Covid (to my knowledge) so I must have been doing something right.

MaizieD

The NHS might have been aware early on, growstuff,but the public weren't told. Which seems odd and inexcusable.. Perhaps a lot of tory ministers had shares in hand sanitizer manufacturers

Have you seen this twitter thread:

twitter.com/DRTomlinsonEP/status/1599108540253077504

I hadn't seen it, so thanks for posting. It's frightening that something like that probably was going on behind the scenes.

I knew it was airborne (possibly because my partner knew) and I remember I kept going on about it, but people thought I was making it up, as they insisted on bleaching their groceries.

I gave up listening to the official announcements, so I never knew what the rules were, but just kept myself to myself.

growstuff

Yvonne Doyle has (I believe) given evidence. She claimed that the NHS was aware from an early stage that the virus was spread by the aerosol effect. However, this isn't consistent with the advice which was being given to hospitals at the time, who were told to concentrate on hand washing. Even in the later stages hospital workers were only supplied with medical masks, not FFP2 or 3.

I was there, and the issue at the beginning was that high protection masks were not available. As I recall in the early days revised guidance was issued very frequently, the NHS was literally learning as it went along. Staff have to be individually fitted for Ffp3 masks, which were in any case in extremely short supply for months. Hand sanitiser and protective aprons were also in very short supply initially - hand washing was a first line defence only, when nothing else was available.

The NHS might have been aware early on, growstuff,but the public weren't told. Which seems odd and inexcusable.. Perhaps a lot of tory ministers had shares in hand sanitizer manufacturers

Have you seen this twitter thread:

twitter.com/DRTomlinsonEP/status/1599108540253077504

Yvonne Doyle has (I believe) given evidence. She claimed that the NHS was aware from an early stage that the virus was spread by the aerosol effect. However, this isn't consistent with the advice which was being given to hospitals at the time, who were told to concentrate on hand washing. Even in the later stages hospital workers were only supplied with medical masks, not FFP2 or 3.

I see that she has already given evidence to the Inquiry, I shall have to check if masking was mentioned and what she said about it.

I can't find that Harris has given evidence. The article I got the info. from must have been confused.

Towards the end of the last lockdown some sections of the public got really restless and almost mutinous; there were some ugly scenes at a hospital in Newcastle after the end of the lockdown restrictions when hospital staff tried to encourage people to continue wearing masks and socially distance once inside the building. There were hundreds of physical and verbal attacks on staff.

Interesting stuff, Dickens.

I remember all the furore about mask wearing, we even had discussions about it on here at the time. It took a long time for the Western countries to take on board the fact that covid spread most effectively by means of aerosols which dispersed more widely than droplets and which were best countered by the use of masks, N95 or FFP3. Especially as the World Health Organisation was initially of the opinion that mask wearing wasn't particularly effective. Yet the Asian countries which had experience of SARS and MERS used masking as an effective barrier to covid infection and had far lower infection rates than us in the west. There seemed to be some sort of exceptionalist belief which prevented the West from taking heed of the example of the East, despite its lower infection rates.

I haven't looked in depth at the evidence from the scientists but, from the commentary on it, the spread by means of aerosols and the use of masks as a preventative measure doesn't seem to have been in the foreground. But perhaps this may come at a later point in the Inquiry.

Of course, by the time masking was introduced in the UK there was so much information and misinformation being spread on social media and by self identified 'libertarians' that unless one was prepared to look at and evaluate the research on mask wearing it was difficult to know who was in the right of it.

It didn't help that Jennie Harris, deputy CMO, was equivocal about masking, at one point even suggesting that masks could 'trap' the virus and make it more likely for the wearer to become infected. I see that she has already given evidence to the Inquiry, I shall have to check if masking was mentioned and what she said about it.

I think my point is that the public were getting very mixed messages by that point.

Grandmabatty

Sorry, *Callistemon. I didn't mean to leave anyone out!

Actually, when they did call in the Forces to help, some glimpse of efficiency was apparent.

Grandmabatty

Sorry, *Callistemon. I didn't mean to leave anyone out!

👍

Sorry, *Callistemon. I didn't mean to leave anyone out!

I did say as you were
Naval term meaning return to previous position.

Thank you Dickens and Marydoll. Your support for the purpose of the thread is appreciated.

I do hope we get back on track. I don't usually post on the N&P threads because I am neither knowledgeable nor robust enough.
However, I have been following the Inquiry every day getting little else done and have found this thread interesting and informative, until it went off track.

MaizieD

growstuff

Has this thread now strayed so far from the inquiry that it's no longer worth contributing?

No, there are attempts to keep it on track

I'm sure your contribution will be worthwhile.

No, let's get back to it.

Inevitably there will be 'digressions' as with all N&P threads, but this is too important to just let it fizzle out.

There will be other virus outbreaks no? We really do need to be prepared as a nation.

Towards the end of the last lockdown some sections of the public got really restless and almost mutinous; there were some ugly scenes at a hospital in Newcastle after the end of the lockdown restrictions when hospital staff tried to encourage people to continue wearing masks and socially distance once inside the building. There were hundreds of physical and verbal attacks on staff.

In another hospital, in Surrey I believe, a group entered the hospital - presumably as visitors - and refused to wear masks and also refused to leave when asked by Security.

These incidents may be peripheral, but they were gaining traction and really do need to be looked at because whatever the findings, getting people to conform to demands put in place during a health crisis is going to be central to the prevention of viral spread. Anti vaxxers are also anti mask-wearers... perhaps we need to look at the whole issue of wearing masks - especially the simple surgical masks which, apparently, do slow the spread if used in conjunction with other measures - like frequent hand-washing etc - but are not as effective as the respirator type, the N95s, or whatever they're called.

I cannot see the public tolerating another lockdown TBH and on a personal level, even though I'm CEV, I'm not sure it would be a good idea to try to impose them further. Maybe there is another way to model "shielding" for the elderly and the vulnerable?

I'd also be interested to see the results of other countries' Inquiry findings, for the sake of comparisons.

This inquiry is about a lot more than Johnson and the parties isn't it? And it's not part of a witch hunt against him or his party. He and they were in office, and have to be held accountable - as any PM or government would. I'm sure other governments in other countries made mistakes and that's why it's so important to have these investigations. Maybe countries could co-operate with their findings and learn 'lessons' from each other?

Let’s not forget that Johnson’s own father was constantly flouting the rules. I think his comment when his son caught covid was quite revealing ie ‘he’s took one for the team’ which I always assumed meant that they were still thinking in terms of herd immunity.

No one I know thinks Ms Sturgeon did a good job. She took draconian measures that impacted so many people negatively and that still reverberate today. But then I don’t live in the Central Belt. 🤷‍♀️