Nightingale Hospitals

However I wondered myself about how the Nightingale Hospitals would be staffed. We were struggling for staff already, and then Covid took many more of them off sick, and let’s not forget that many died of Covid.
To be honest I think these new hospitals were of little value and it seems certain money was wasted building them. Without staff, a hospital is useless.

Aveline

I say it again. So easy with 20:20 hindsight.

It's not 20:20 hindsight. Some of us have been writing about procurement since 2020.

Certainly not joined up thinking, nor any prior preparation for a pandemic, then it was spending in panic, being seen to do something regardless of cost or disruption

Dinahmo

Aveline

I say it again. So easy with 20:20 hindsight.

It's not 20:20 hindsight. Some of us have been writing about procurement since 2020.

She doesn't believe us, Dinahmo

If Gnet had a better search facility I could probably find some threads...

I'm sure you have been writing about procurement. As previously stated, waiting for NHS procurement procedure would have taken months to grind through- time we just didn't have.

That’s just what my sister said today vegans rocks.

Aveline

I'm sure you have been writing about procurement. As previously stated, waiting for NHS procurement procedure would have taken months to grind through- time we just didn't have.

You might like to read these:

www.bmj.com/content/379/bmj.o2495

www.transparency.org.uk/track-and-trace-uk-PPE-procurement-corruption-risk-VIP-lane

Of course you don't have to believe them

MaizieD

Dinahmo

Aveline

I say it again. So easy with 20:20 hindsight.

It's not 20:20 hindsight. Some of us have been writing about procurement since 2020.

She doesn't believe us, Dinahmo

If Gnet had a better search facility I could probably find some threads...

They are certainly there. Here’s one from 2020.
www.google.com/url?client=internal-element-cse&cx=010995057459380558086:wn3vvylhmc4&q=https://www.gransnet.com/forums/coronavirus/1289375-We-should-have-locked-down-earlier&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjftN-grLCCAxWjFRAIHXa5CjwQFnoECAUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0B1HxBrHp_wFp84hKoTnyj

The Glasgow Nightingale hospital was used for clinics ,I know this because my OH had appointments there for scans and tests that we thought he wouldn't get because of Covid .
There were security staff on the carpark entrance making sure only the patient went in to the SEC bulding and that other people in the car stayed in the car .
We were there 3 times ,one of which was a scan for an aneurism that I didn't know he was due but was very grateful for as his Dad died of an aortic aneurism .
It made sense to have the clinics there and stop the public going nto hospitals with covid patients

Aveline

I'm sure you have been writing about procurement. As previously stated, waiting for NHS procurement procedure would have taken months to grind through- time we just didn't have.

Yup, they managed to expedite procurement, but strangely, though businesses such as suppliers of PPE and ventilators, who had already supplied the NHS, were rallying round and offering increased production and vastly increased purchases of supplies from their usual sources, they were sidelined while contracts were rushed through the VIP channel for friends and associates of the tories. There was a great deal of publicity about it at the time..

Incidentally, it's now been admitted that Michelle Mone and her husband were involved with the company which she sponsored through the VIP channel, which wasn't even set up until days after it had been accepted as a supplier and then proceeded to supply over £100million worth of overpriced , useless gowns. And passed over a share of the profits to her husband..
Having utterly denied any involvement with the company ever since, and threatened legal action, it turns out that they were lying...

Then there was Hancocks local pub landlord who supplied defective test tubes...

Aveline

I say it again. So easy with 20:20 hindsight.

That is a totally wrong statement. You have clearly not been paying attention.

It was absolutely obvious from the time that the nightingale hospitals were first mooted that they could never be staffed. It was said at the time and subsequently (very quickly) proven correct.

You really don't understand my perspective. I won't persist. There was a bigger picture than the one you prefer to perseverate on. As previously stated if only you lot were running the country everything would be absolutely perfect at all times.

What 'bigger picture' would that be, Aveline?

All you've done is mutter 'hindsight', despite the fact that a great deal was known at the time.

Why don't you tell us what convinces you that the handling of the covid crisis couldn't possibly have been any better?

Treasury vs scientists and academics Vs psychological aspects of the general public. So much to weigh up and decide between. I'm not interested in nitpicking personalities involved. Just looking at the bigger picture.
Despite everything the vaccines were developed and rapidly rolled out and furlough saved many livelihoods.

Aveline

Treasury vs scientists and academics Vs psychological aspects of the general public. So much to weigh up and decide between. I'm not interested in nitpicking personalities involved. Just looking at the bigger picture.
Despite everything the vaccines were developed and rapidly rolled out and furlough saved many livelihoods.

Most of the EU countries were not far behind us and the cost to them was less. The number of deaths in the UK was 9.12 per 1000 population and France was 9.51. Not a big difference considering Johnson paid over the odds in order to beat the other EU countries to get the vaccines.

We are looking at the bigger picture - just a different version to you. We are looking at the amount of money wasted, not only with the covid vaccines but also the fraud connected to procurement but also with the furlough schemes. Those monies could be available for helping the poor of the UK.

Finally, you said "if only you lot were running the country everything would be absolutely perfect at all times" .From this I infer that you are not leftwards leaning and therefore can only be right leaning. In which case look at the mess that your lot have got us into

Me? Right leaning? Couldn't be more wrong.

Aveline

Treasury vs scientists and academics Vs psychological aspects of the general public. So much to weigh up and decide between. I'm not interested in nitpicking personalities involved. Just looking at the bigger picture.
Despite everything the vaccines were developed and rapidly rolled out and furlough saved many livelihoods.

And the nightingale hospitals were built because?

Because they might be needed!

Aveline

Because they might be needed!

For what? Housing the homeless or immigrants, because they could never have been used as a hospital as they were devoid of clinicians.

I think the problem for me, Aveline, is that your insistence on us speaking with hindsight resonates with Johnson on PMQs constantly calling Starmer 'Captain Hindsight' when in fact Starmer was usually ahead of the curve.

For example, in the autumn of 2020 he was calling for a 'circuit breaker' lockdown over half term which didn't happen. Instead, schools were ordered to reopen after half term and then closed a day later...

Watching the covid Inquiry now and it was the opinion of the Covid Task Force, and the medics who were feeding into it that an earlier lockdown at that period would have most likely have prevented, or at least considerably slowed the rising number of infections.

In fact, we've learned from the Inquiry that the opposition parties had regular briefings from the Cabinet Office, so the judgements of the LOTO would be informed by those briefings. He had the same information as the government... No 'hindsight'.

Sigh. I'm not talking about them but about us armchair critics. Hard decisions had to be made by the government. No time to ponderously debate options. The people involved were humans. Nobody was deliberately getting anything wrong. They all did their best at the time and it was a precarious time.

Aveline

Sigh. I'm not talking about them but about us armchair critics. Hard decisions had to be made by the government. No time to ponderously debate options. The people involved were humans. Nobody was deliberately getting anything wrong. They all did their best at the time and it was a precarious time.

Well, then you clearly have not been listening to the covid enquiry.

Then you clearly are wrong. It's a matter of perspective. Step back a bit and look. Don't get lost in the nitty gritty and personalities

Aveline

You really don't understand my perspective. I won't persist. There was a bigger picture than the one you prefer to perseverate on. As previously stated if only you lot were running the country everything would be absolutely perfect at all times.

I'm with you Aveline. This about sums it up

Hindsight has nothing to do with it. Lack of foresight regarding insufficient NHS staffing was and remains the problem. Wasn't even mentioned in the King's Speech yet the long waiting list is of grave concern to many people.