Billions to be cut from welfare services

You were fortunate to have a good husband. Mine walked out.

Germanshepherdsmum

My father was blind but worked all his life.

In the larger view, so what? You are picking very specific examples GSM. Your logic is on the level of:

Peter eats carrots.
Donkeys eat carrots
Therefore Peter is a donkey.

My dad was bi-polar (then manic depressive). He held down a job and worked hard for many years until he had a major breakdown. He was hospitalised, given electric shock treatment and then drug treatment. Even so it was several years before he was able to return to work, and when he did so it was on a part time basis. You never know what is going to happen and when you will need support.

Germanshepherdsmum

You were fortunate to have a good husband. Mine walked out.

My Father walked out on our family too. As I said, it was a luxury me and my husband had to give up our ‘mortgaged’ home. We now have another one but it is still not paid off, again a ‘luxury’ compared to other people

DaisyAnneReturns

Germanshepherdsmum

My father was blind but worked all his life.

In the larger view, so what? You are picking very specific examples GSM. Your logic is on the level of:

Peter eats carrots.
Donkeys eat carrots
Therefore Peter is a donkey.

Thanks for that. Maybe you can understand where my work ethic comes from. My father set a brilliant example. How dare you say ‘so what’? You have no idea. He worked and he grew all our fruit and veg despite being unable to see. He had guts. Don’t insult him - or me.

Ahem!

www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/14/therese-coffey-says-she-nearly-died-from-ministerial-stress

Therese Coffey claims she nearly died from work-related stress.

She's not the only one - I wonder if she's ever spoken up for people who have a similar experience.

What is often overlooked is the plain fact that it is employers who offer the jobs and not the DWP.

If a candidate is “forced” to apply for jobs but does not “perform” well at the interview stage then they will not be employed.
No one can force an employer to take on someone.

There are still enough people out there who actually want to work but are struggling for a variety of reasons, so….why not help them?

As for the jobs that (it seems) no one wants to do…the ones that are constantly recruiting, well they ought to examine themselves.
Find out just why no one wants those jobs or doesn’t stay for long.

All that will happen is that people will be made to “apply” for a “target” number of jobs in order to fulfil their obligations and remain entitled to claim certain benefits.

Some will achieve this “target” by just applying “Willy-nilly” for any jobs whether appropriate or not, but others will be so stressed, and harassed by the prospect of being sanctioned for failing, that there health whether physical, mental or both, will just deteriorate further.

It is a farce that in fact wastes more money and leads to misery for those affected and evictions and debts are almost guaranteed.
Can’t these people think of something new!

Well said Granmarderby10!

I experienced a spell of unemployment in my late 50s. There's a DWP app I had to use and apply for a certain number of jobs every week. One of those jobs was as a temporary Christmas elf in a department store about 30 miles away. I'm nearly 6ft tall and don't look at all "elf like". Quite honestly, I think I'd have frightened the customers away.

I was also told to apply for jobs which hadn't been advertised, so I applied to be a DWP advisor. Strangely, I didn't even receive an acknowledgement of my application .

I lost track of the number of job applications I made. I think I got one interview (didn't get the job), but I ticked all the right boxes and was never sanctioned. I even attended a course on filling in application forms (travel expenses not reimbursed).

Quite honestly, the idea that people don't want jobs is farcical.

The government introduced an app (don't know if it still exists) which advises people on jobs "suitable" for them. I completed it without lying and waited with anticipation for my results - three jobs were recommended - one of which was as an MP!

Germanshepherdsmum

Medication enables you to function wwm. That’s why I have to take it. Not a small dose either.

In my grandson’s case medication does not make him able to function normally. He would be delighted if it did. The medication helps to reduce the number of crises/meltdowns he suffers but they still happen. Mental illnesses are many and varied and can be complex so shouldn’t be written off as lifestyle choice or needing to pull yourself together. If only.

It saddens me to see so little empathy and understanding.

That is exactly my point Granmaderby- I cannot envisage a situation where the young woman I referred to would be if interest to any employer. She/ he could, for the same rate, choose someone who has full cognitive abilities, can manage stairs and uneven surfaces and has good eyesight.

😂 at being a 6ft elf!

Well argued Granmarderby.

Unfortunately those, who simply blame the difficulties in life on the people they affect, are the extremists of either flavour, and extremists are authoritarian.

So you are up against those who will happily tell you they got where they are, solely by their own effort, not recognising any of the escape routes that existed that they were able to use. The same people will also blame those unable, for whatever reason to access and use any or many escape routes.

Authoritarianism exists in government and is in action (or has been up to now) with the permission of the "Conservative" government. This government is a coalition of centre-right (although most were thrown out), right and far right. This coalition has been happy to march to the beat of their extreme. Now it is just about money. Money for themselves and money which others will use to support whichever faction they believe will make them richer.

And please don't let anyone think the left can wave a wand and change this. They have their own authoritarians - we see them on here.

I have always thought Starmer would have to wait until the next election to bring in PR but I now believe that, in order to get some sort of equality, he must start straight away and have it available as soon as possible.

growstuff - thank you for your post, which illustrates so clearly how the whole "job coach" trope is just a bit of window dressing. There is no way that these staff, burdened with a thankless and hopeless task, can possibly get jobs for the unemployable. It is just a way of ticking the "Doing Something" box for the government. And people are taken in unfortunately!

And never forget that, in this process, genuinely sick people will be frightened and panicked and made worse. But does this government care one jot? - no. It sits back and hopes for pats on the back/votes from their right-wing supporters who have absolutely no idea what is really happening with the poor and disadvantaged and do not bother to find out.

Luckygirl3

And never forget that, in this process, genuinely sick people will be frightened and panicked and made worse. But does this government care one jot? - no. It sits back and hopes for pats on the back/votes from their right-wing supporters who have absolutely no idea what is really happening with the poor and disadvantaged and do not bother to find out.

You raise a good point here Luckygirl3.

I have a close relative with Borderline Personality Disorder and BiPolar (rapid cycle), they have tried to maintain employment in the past and when it's failed...the effects on them have been horrendous.
I can recall one particular occasion after yet another attempt had failed, when I held them on the bathroom floor after self harming to a terrible extent and being told by the crisis team to 'pop him in a cab to A&E'.
Support agencies are stretched to the hilt...who will pick up the pieces with those it fails because people are falling through the net now!

MH services have been so radiacally reduced. When I worked in MH and left just after the service was re-organised, people with MH conditions were known by the service and if someone was seen to be deteriorating we would ring their careworker. There was a wonderfully integrated continuity of care and the team would review every client each week. I worked with a community team in a day hospital. Then changes were made.. if a client was taken into the MH system it was only for 6 weeks and all the day hospitals in the city were closed down.. I don't think anyone knew how radically the services were reduced. I had a friend who was a MH social worker who left after she held a care plan meeting and realised that there was nothing she could offer the relatives. It really is dire now and I pity the people who are still trying their best to work in the MH service.. even worse for potential patients..

@Germanshepherdsmum
I'm glad that your mental health issues have not stopped you living the life you want. Unfortunately, one size does not fit all with mental illness. Mild anxiety, treated by medication and severe mental illness, are poles apart.
Just because you have not had an illness that limits your life expectations, does not mean others don't.
It's like comparing an ingrown toe nail with a foot amputation.

I am heartened by the humanity demonstrated in the majority of posts on this subject but horrified by the scathing comments of those posters who back this corrupt government and who think that mental health problems are imaginary.

Luckygirl3

And never forget that, in this process, genuinely sick people will be frightened and panicked and made worse. But does this government care one jot? - no. It sits back and hopes for pats on the back/votes from their right-wing supporters who have absolutely no idea what is really happening with the poor and disadvantaged and do not bother to find out.

I don't ever forget. In many ways I was fortunate. Although I've been through stages in my life when I've hit rock bottom, I'm resilient, reasonably intelligent, have a string of qualifications. Although I'm often too proud to ask for help, I know I have a network of friends who would help me out. I had already decided I would set up a small self-employed business, so I ended up seeing what a farce it all was rather than being upset.

The "applying for a job" course was an eye-opener. There were a couple of us on the course who could have run it ourselves because we knew how to fill out an application form and present ourselves at interview. Shame we couldn't actually find any jobs! There were other participants who had to bring carers with them. They had severe mental health problems and one had a physical disability too. Over the few weeks of the course, we got quite friendly and talked about our situations, some of which were heartbreaking.

I don't know how much this "work coaching" costs, but I can't help thinking that the money would be better invested in subsidising schemes such as the former Remploy.

I don’t have mild anxiety Annewilko. I wish it was just that. I also wish that I hadn’t been prevented from living the life I would want - living with severe depression and the knowledge that in all probability one day you will choose to end your life is not ‘living the life you want’. Medication has enabled me to function, to work and be of use to others, not to live the sort of life I or anyone would choose. Many people with severe depression are very adept at appearing outwardly normal, whilst the life they live in their heads, seen only by those closest to them, is anything but. I have not suggested that ‘one size fits all’ with mental illness. Patently that is not the case.

growstuff

Luckygirl3

And never forget that, in this process, genuinely sick people will be frightened and panicked and made worse. But does this government care one jot? - no. It sits back and hopes for pats on the back/votes from their right-wing supporters who have absolutely no idea what is really happening with the poor and disadvantaged and do not bother to find out.

I don't ever forget. In many ways I was fortunate. Although I've been through stages in my life when I've hit rock bottom, I'm resilient, reasonably intelligent, have a string of qualifications. Although I'm often too proud to ask for help, I know I have a network of friends who would help me out. I had already decided I would set up a small self-employed business, so I ended up seeing what a farce it all was rather than being upset.

The "applying for a job" course was an eye-opener. There were a couple of us on the course who could have run it ourselves because we knew how to fill out an application form and present ourselves at interview. Shame we couldn't actually find any jobs! There were other participants who had to bring carers with them. They had severe mental health problems and one had a physical disability too. Over the few weeks of the course, we got quite friendly and talked about our situations, some of which were heartbreaking.

I don't know how much this "work coaching" costs, but I can't help thinking that the money would be better invested in subsidising schemes such as the former Remploy.

I don't know how much this "work coaching" costs, but I can't help thinking that the money would be better invested in subsidising schemes such as the former Remploy.

'Work coaches' etc, the whole thing is a complete nonsense. It's not about helping the sick or disabled... just a cover to cut public spending to the very bone. The government does not want to spend on public services - any of them - regardless.

They know there's a receptive voter base who will be delighted that benefit recipients - who they believe are largely on benefits through choice - will react favourable to this idea. I doubt it will save money - in any amount that is meaningful.

You can be assured tho' that the government will work its way upward - it's just gone for the easy meat first. Eventually, we will all be affected by these "difficult decisions" being taken to cut public spending. When those services we rely on are no longer available.

Good for you, if you can manage to work, try telling that to my now dead sister, who was diagnosed with bi-poler- she worked in accounting & like you turned her nose up at people on disability, until it happened to her- what a crass comment- it’s a lifestyle choice!
Maybe the tories should try harder to stop the illegals coming in to the country, (especially after whats happened abroad), putting them in 4 star hotels, maybe that will save us a Fortune in taxes. I will be voting, but it won’t be for either the tories or labour!

That’s to Germansheperdsmum

Did I say it was a lifestyle choice? No. Did I say that I turned my nose up at ‘people on disability’ (sic)? No. But I have no time for those who can, with meditation and effort, work, but don’t. I’m not talking here about people with chronic pain which cannot be sufficiently alleviated to enable them to work, people undergoing chemotherapy or people whose mental health condition renders them unemployable. Simply those who, with a combination of medication and effort, can work,

If that decision ( who is fit for work) is going to be made by a poorly-trained work coach, there will be mistakes made, lives devastated or lost, like Daniel Blake.
But these are only proposals. There has been a consultation period, with input from disability organisations, charities eg CAB, Age UK etc who understand the nitty gritty.
Given the timescale, most of the proposals will not become law, but any changes which do not need legislation will be put in place quietly.