Homo sapiens sapiens

Well dinosaurs became extinct. Continuity what?
Unacoutable, above the law, cost a fortune the treasury funds all their lifestyle, their security is over 100 million, work shy, Giving Evidence "Royals and "Charity found they don't do much for Charity. Charities should not seek them as they won't benefit. HoS does not defend our constitution from a PM who breaks our constitutional laws so no checks and balances. They've had their day. Yet they are having the time of their lives at our expense. Time for an elected president who will stand up for and defend our countries laws and freedoms. Charles Windsor didn't pay any inheritance tax Are they having a laugh. The millions they are funded plus the millions they made from the slave trade passed down to them abolish the monarchy

Race to me is the human race. As the Dalai Lama says we are all born in the same way so are one race.

growstuff

M0nica

oldfrill I think it was reasonably clear that this wasn't the problem, more a cry of despair from a doctor running out reasons for his anaemia. I am sure if he had thought this was a real possibility, a DNA test would have taken place.

I was really using this of an example where a disease had an ethnic connection. There are others, but I am not specifically aware of them.

No, it probably has a genetic cause, not an ethnic one.

Yes, both Thalassemia and sickle cell disease are both genetic disorders, inherited. are wide-spread in Mediterranean , African and Asian countries. Sickle cell is common in certain ethnic groups, Africans, Hispanic Americans, as is Thalassemia, of which in the UK is found in Bangladeshi, Chinese, Cypriot, Indian and Pakistani peoples. So yes there is a well known ethnic marker. Both are terrible diseases, causing pain and misery for the sufferers. Of which I have Nursed a few.

MaizieD, maybe I did not make myself clear. It seems to me that every black person I have ever met seems to think only black slavery matters. There have been white slaves as long as there have been black slaves. Slavery goes back to prehistory. My white slave 5 times great grandmother counts as much as any other slave dead or alive. The only difference I have found is that black slaves who were forced in those horrific ways across the Atlantic were insured so they counted for something. The white slaves were not insured and so were not counted and counted for nothing.

So black people say that black slavery was racist but white slavery wasn't?

Freya5

growstuff

M0nica

oldfrill I think it was reasonably clear that this wasn't the problem, more a cry of despair from a doctor running out reasons for his anaemia. I am sure if he had thought this was a real possibility, a DNA test would have taken place.

I was really using this of an example where a disease had an ethnic connection. There are others, but I am not specifically aware of them.

No, it probably has a genetic cause, not an ethnic one.

Yes, both Thalassemia and sickle cell disease are both genetic disorders, inherited. are wide-spread in Mediterranean , African and Asian countries. Sickle cell is common in certain ethnic groups, Africans, Hispanic Americans, as is Thalassemia, of which in the UK is found in Bangladeshi, Chinese, Cypriot, Indian and Pakistani peoples. So yes there is a well known ethnic marker. Both are terrible diseases, causing pain and misery for the sufferers. Of which I have Nursed a few.

You are confusing genetics and ethnicity.

These diseases tend to be more common in certain groups because people tend to breed with people from the same groups as them, so inherit from the same gene pool.

The diseases have nothing at all to do with ethnicity.

Stillstanding

MaizieD, maybe I did not make myself clear. It seems to me that every black person I have ever met seems to think only black slavery matters. There have been white slaves as long as there have been black slaves. Slavery goes back to prehistory. My white slave 5 times great grandmother counts as much as any other slave dead or alive. The only difference I have found is that black slaves who were forced in those horrific ways across the Atlantic were insured so they counted for something. The white slaves were not insured and so were not counted and counted for nothing.

Being insured isn't a marker of race.

We have never identified the “missing link” we know that several separate groups of primitive humans left Africa and spread from the Middle East across to South East Asia. Amongst those there must have been one genetically dominant type that interbred with all the other distinct types, what used to be referred to as Negroid, Mongoloid and Caucasoid, they could not have evolved separately and have such similar physical and intellectual ability.

Race today revolves around visible differences, not just physical, cultural as well, all the populations around the Mediterranean are genetically the same and physically very similar, yet the cultures have developed in entirely different ways. When we consider “Racial Differences” today it’s often only cultural behavior that is being judged.

Katie59 Your last sentence is correct. So-called racial differences are only cultural and historic differences. At a population level there are often more differences between people labelled as the same race than there are between people labelled as different races.

I don't understand your reasoning about interbreeding with other "types". Originally, all humans would have been very similar. We now know that there was some interbreeding outside Africa with Neanderthals, but there were no other humans. Different characteristics have evolved through standard mutations. For example, people who had a mutation for lighter skin were better adapted to regions of the world with less natural sunlight, where they had to wear clothes to keep warm. They could naturally absorb more Vitamin D, so were healthier and lived longer to produce more offspring, who in their turn inherited the same light skin mutation.

I'm not sure that the humans who left Africa were primitive. Those staying in Africa have evolved, just as everybody else has. The actress/director, Lupita Nyong'o, who identifies as Mexican-Kenyan, has been identified as having the same mitochondrial DNA as one of the very first African humans.

Just a quick comment.

I think that there have been other humans identified.

People, like other animals, evolve because those with genetic traits most suited for the geographical and climatic conditions they live in are more likely to survive and breed. that is why dark skinned people live in areas with high levels of sunshine most of the year while lighter skinned people live in more northerly latitudes.

Humans are animals, the same rules that apply to birds, or hairy nosed ant-eaters apply to us. the difference is that we place values on people based on what they look like.

Personally, one of the first thing I remember learning in a church-going childhood was that we are all equal in the sight of God. that lesson has stayed with me all my life, and does so still.

Whitewavemark2

Just a quick comment.

I think that there have been other humans identified.

Yes, there were. That's why "homo sapiens sapiens" has "sapiens" twice. We are a subspecies of "homo sapiens".

However, there is no evidence that any of the other subspecies survived or interbred with "homo sapiens sapiens".

It all happened before our ancestors left Africa. What almost certainly happened is that many millions of years ago as home sapiens evolved, there were at least two mutations, known as "homo rudolfensis" and "homo habilis" (probably).

One of them evolved into "homo erectus", which then evolved into "homo sapiens", Denisovans and "homo neanderthalensis".

There is evidence of interbreeding between "homo sapiens" and "homo neanderthalensis", but not in people with "pure" African ancestry. This suggests that humans didn't meet Neanderthals until they left Africa. There had probably been migration from Africa before humans reached the "homo erectus" stage.

The point is that current evidence suggests that every single member of the human race has a common ancestor. Differences between people are the result of mutations, some of which gave certain groups of people an evolutionary advantage - some mutations didn't give people an advantage, but have nevertheless been inherited and become characteristic of certain groups because people tend to interbreed with people of their own group.

"Race" isn't a scientific concept. It's a social and cultural one, as are all the words which use "race" as a core.

Human evolution is to a slight and very slow degree caused by natural selection. Humans evolve culturally , a much speedier process, NB domesticated animals evolve by artificial genetic selection which does of course mirror human cultural practices.

Neanderthal or other ancient DNA is present in all populations in varying degrees usually at a level of 3% the exception is native Australians and Melanesian’s who have typically 5%.
Sub Saharan African DNA originates from unidentified ancient humans from which viable DNA is not available. The only other ancient humans we have DNA evidence is Denisovian from east Asia and that has Neanderthal DNA included.

In more recent times probably around 60,000 years ago a much more advance human evolved, interbred with all the ancient types who quickly disappeared as a separate species.

We know from modern genetics how quickly physical changes are made, a few generations interbreeding and the original charisteristics are lost, traces of the ancient DNA is retained in the new population. Today there is a wide variety of physical traits, tall parents do have predominantly tall children, as well as a lot of other traits both good and bad. The only taboo is inbreeding, closely related parents result in greatly degraded characteristics, physical and mental.

But Katie, tall parents are tall, not always tall because their own ancestors were tall ,but also because they have been well fed and otherwise born into affluent circumstances.
A large strong healthy newborn may become stunted due to malnutrition or other circumstances of his nurture, such as war or famine.
Humans change the circumstances of their cultures and nurture comparatively suddenly whereas natural selection moves slowly.

Caleo

But Katie, tall parents are tall, not always tall because their own ancestors were tall ,but also because they have been well fed and otherwise born into affluent circumstances.
A large strong healthy newborn may become stunted due to malnutrition or other circumstances of his nurture, such as war or famine.
Humans change the circumstances of their cultures and nurture comparatively suddenly whereas natural selection moves slowly.

Quite correct, we see this in Asia recent generations are taller than their parents.
My step daughters husband and family are all exceptionally tall, but all suffer back problems, she is average height so tall is very dominant in that case.

The only taboo is inbreeding, closely related parents result in greatly degraded characteristics, physical and mental.

No it doesn't. All that happens is that there is an increase in children born with genetic disabilities because more parents will both have a gene for the same disability, but even then we are only talking about an increase in the presence of certain disabilities. The majority of children will still be born healthy and well, both mentally and physically and grow up normally.

M0nica

^The only taboo is inbreeding, closely related parents result in greatly degraded characteristics, physical and mental.^

No it doesn't. All that happens is that there is an increase in children born with genetic disabilities because more parents will both have a gene for the same disability, but even then we are only talking about an increase in the presence of certain disabilities. The majority of children will still be born healthy and well, both mentally and physically and grow up normally.

Monica, one generation most offspring are normal but that is multiplied with successive generations. There is abundant evidence with isolated communities degrading in this way, not least in European Aristoctacy, even our own Royal family.

One of the problems with saying we are all one race is that it is dangerous. I used to believe the trope that we were all “the same on the inside” until I heard about the problems of getting ethnic minorities to donate organs. I was shocked to learn that it does make a difference where donated organs come from. Perhaps we are not all the same under the skin after all and the differences should be known about. And before anyone starts calling me names what I have just said does not mean I think different races should be treated differently. I do think though that it is sometimes useful or even vital to know the differences there are between us.

growstuff

Incidentally, it's not uncommon for Palestinians to have fair hair and blue or green eyes.

That's because the original inhabitants (bronze age and before) came from Greece (as we now call it).

We have many different blood groups,too - not to mention rhesus positive and rhesus negative. My Mum was AB negative and I have no idea where she got that. One of my grandchildren has picked it up,though. Others in the family have a blood clotting disorder - must be the royal blood of course !

Namsnanny

growstuff

Incidentally, it's not uncommon for Palestinians to have fair hair and blue or green eyes.

That's because the original inhabitants (bronze age and before) came from Greece (as we now call it).

I know. the people are all the same race.

nanna8

We have many different blood groups,too - not to mention rhesus positive and rhesus negative. My Mum was AB negative and I have no idea where she got that. One of my grandchildren has picked it up,though. Others in the family have a blood clotting disorder - must be the royal blood of course !

Your Mum got her blood group from her parents.

Granyrose
It’s not just organ donations. Blood donation is another problem. Some years ago when there was a big shout out for black/asian people to come forward and give I asked several black people I know why they didn’t. All they could say,was, it’s just wrong. 🤷‍♀️ I did point out that they could possibly have my blood in an emergency. No response.

www.nhsbt.nhs.uk/how-you-can-help/get-involved/key-messages-and-information/why-black-asian-and-minority-ethnic-donors-are-needed/#:~:text=Yet%20only%202%25%20of%20current,blood%20donors%20of%20Black%20heritage

MerylStreep

Granyrose
It’s not just organ donations. Blood donation is another problem. Some years ago when there was a big shout out for black/asian people to come forward and give I asked several black people I know why they didn’t. All they could say,was, it’s just wrong. 🤷‍♀️ I did point out that they could possibly have my blood in an emergency. No response.

www.nhsbt.nhs.uk/how-you-can-help/get-involved/key-messages-and-information/why-black-asian-and-minority-ethnic-donors-are-needed/#:~:text=Yet%20only%202%25%20of%20current,blood%20donors%20of%20Black%20heritage

What does this have to do with scientific race? It's cultural and, in some cases, religious.