I am hoping that the world will have a handle on the latest outbreak.

M0nica

Everything is always wonderful if everyone does it properly but what people actually do, as distinct from what they ought to do, has to be factored in when considering the effectiveness of any measure.

So, you're not actually saying that masks don't work to prevent covid infection. You're saying that wearing incorrectly fitted or inappropriate masks don't work. Which is not proof at all that masking doesn't work.

We know that wearing correct spec. masks, correctly fitted does prevent infection for individuals. That is the important message.
If a government wants to mandate mask wearing as a strategy to cut mass infection it really should make an effort to give clear and accurate information about effective masking. Not expect an inexperienced population to get it right.

China has reported that there are no “unusual or novel pathogens” to be found in the cluster pneumonia outbreaks.

🤞🤞

Everything is always wonderful if everyone does it properly but what people actually do, as distinct from what they ought to do, has to be factored in when considering the effectiveness of any measure.

M0nica

All the evidence I have seen is very cautious about the effectiveness of masks in stopping transmission of COVId or any other virus. Surgical masks worn in a medical environment, where they are worn effectively and obeying every rule and instruction can and do slow down the passing of infection

But for the world at large, wearing cheap disposable masks or cloth masks, that do not fit properly and are often worn below the nose only engender an atmosphere of false security, and if anything facilitate the transmission of COVIDor any other virus.

Of course ineffective masks worn beneath the nose won't stop transmission, but that doesn't mean that effective masks worn properly don't work. They should be encouraged.

I like to be informed and taking informed decisions

Yes, I do too, in particular, about my health.
So, at a simple level, we were to visit my niece this weekend, but two of her children have tested positive for Covid. We’re no longer going.

Jaxjacky

We had a winter surge of strep throats and RSV in children after mask wearing reduced. China only stopped their mandatory mask wearing in April this year.

This may well be very relevant.

M0nica

Yes, I do know about the lab escape cause for COVID 19, but that is a seperate issue. Most epidemics come from animal to man transmission.

(You actually said epidemics M0nica )

All the evidence I have seen is very cautious about the effectiveness of masks in stopping transmission of COVId or any other virus. Surgical masks worn in a medical environment, where they are worn effectively and obeying every rule and instruction can and do slow down the passing of infection

But for the world at large, wearing cheap disposable masks or cloth masks, that do not fit properly and are often worn below the nose only engender an atmosphere of false security, and if anything facilitate the transmission of COVIDor any other virus.

Could you tell me which pandemics you have in mind?
Covid, of course, Spanish flu, swine flu?, Bubonic plague?
But just because a disease is spread by eg fleas is it necessarily zoonotic? There are apparently over 150 zoonotic diseases worldwide, which are transmitted to humans by both wild and domestic animal populations, 13 of which are responsible for 2.2 million deaths per year, but these do not necessarily result in pandemics.
I would not think we could still be talking of the Black Death, but maybe you are?

Those poor children, what a terrifying problem

RosiesMaw I was talking specifically about pandemic diseases, and said so, not infections in general.

Allsorts

Growstuff, I am careful, if there was an announcement that there was a deadly virus circulating I would do what I had to, I’ve had all my vaccines, sanitise, that’s all anyone can do, I don't listen to scaremongering.

There's a difference between being informed and scaremongering. I like to be informed and taking informed decisions. That doesn't make me a scaredy cat.

Growstuff, I am careful, if there was an announcement that there was a deadly virus circulating I would do what I had to, I’ve had all my vaccines, sanitise, that’s all anyone can do, I don't listen to scaremongering.

MaizieD

Well, catching covid doesn't give you any immunity either.

I think it might be better to look at other Asian countries where mask wearing is commonplace to see how they are faring now, rather than to place the blame for an upsurge in illness on de-masking..

This 'immunity' thing really bothers me. We don't have immunity from colds and flu just because we've had them once, we go on getting them, so where is the 'immunity'?

And no-one was 'immune' from TB, smallpox, diptheria, polio, etc, etc until vaccines were developed to prevent people catching them. I think that belief in 'natural immunity' is a very dangerous.

It bothers me too. It reminds me of the kind of thing my grandmother would have come out with.

M0nica

What is the evidence that wearing masks slows down or stops transmission of the COVID virus?

The main reason many people in Asian nations wear face maskes is to combat severe air pollution. The particles causing air pollition are much bigger than viral bodies.

There's loads of evidence if you look for it MOnica.

Obviously it would be unethical to do lab controlled trials. Scientists can't put people into a Covid infected area with half masked and half unmasked because the evidence is very strong that the unmasked are being deliberately infected and some would die.

However, there have been many research studies on crowds in indoor spaces, where masking has been optional. There is also much scientific data about the transmission of water droplets, which is one of the main ways Covid is transmitted.

Allsorts

We have to live with it, some will die no doubt as they do from flue. All life has its problems and I do think now we just have to accept it not going away, it's mutating quicker than we develop vacinnes.

It's up to you what you do, but personally if there's a potentially deadly virus circulating in high numbers, I want to know about it and take precautionary measures. I'm all for cutting my risk of dying in the near future if possible.

BlueBelle

The Chinese constantly wear masks long before Covid gave us any problems I m sure it’s a cat and mouse game wear masks to stop catching something but if you never catch anything you never have any immunity

You seem to be saying that people become immune by catching a virus.

I'm puzzled by this because it means that people still catch it, but at a different time. Why is that any better? They still catch it!

M0nica

Yes, I do know about the lab escape cause for COVID 19, but that is a seperate issue. Most epidemics come from animal to man transmission.

It’s not exactly an overwhelming majority M0nica
About 60% of human infections have animal origins , whereas 40% either co-evolved with humans or emerged from non-zoonotic environmental sources

Yes, I do know about the lab escape cause for COVID 19, but that is a seperate issue. Most epidemics come from animal to man transmission.

This is not a pandemic, not even an epidemic. it is restricted to one region of China. While COVID 19 did come from China, China has not been the source of many epidemics.

The main cause of epi/pandemics is the transmission of animal viruses to humans, and that only takes place where mainly wild animals come in contact with humans in an unregulated way.

In a number of Asian countries wild animals, plus chickens and other animals from small holdings are sold in markets where animal faeces, urine and other waste products pass between animals and humans. In Africa in many areas there is a tradition of eating 'bush meat', animals culled from the wild, again in conditions that can lead to the easy transmission of viruses between man and animal, then in crowded living conditons, once the transfer is made it spreads like wild fire. Think of the problems with Ebola and lassa disease.

In Europe and the Americas, this is why we have such very strict hygene rulse governing the rearing and slaughter of all animals meant for human consumption

But it is worth remembering that the 'Spanish' flu of 1918, started in pig farms in the mid-west USA and spread so fast because many of the army training camps for US soldiers going over to fight in Europe. They brought the flu with them on the troop ships.

Once cultural limitations in some cases and high hygiene safety rules for animals prevail in countries that do nto have them at present, then the opportunities for these pandemic diseases to develop and spread will be limited.

Whitewavemark2

Yes that apparently is a possible explanation, but the WHO are investigating it in some detail as being “unexplained”

There does seem to be a suggestion that it is spreading.

Let’s hope it is nothing, but I hope that it is being properly managed.

I share your unease Whitewave and lack of confidence in the Chinese authorities’ willingness to share data .
I was reminded of this lack of information back in 2019 by an article in this mornings DT

Back on December 31 2019, World Health Organisation staff in China picked up the first indications of a health scare in Wuhan from local media and a report by ProMed, a surveillance programme run by the International Society for Infectious Diseases. The WHO immediately sought clarification from the Chinese authorities; three days later, they replied, referring to a “cluster of pneumonia cases of unknown cause ”.
What many now believe to be the “managed” flow of incomplete, ambiguous and unreliable data fed to the WHO by the Chinese government has gone down in history as a major potential contributor to the subsequent spread of Covid-19. But could there now be a risk of history repeating itself ?
On Tuesday this week, ProMed issued a notification concerning an apparent epidemic of “undiagnosed pneumonia” in children. On Wednesday, the WHO requested the Chinese authorities to provide clinical data and lab test results on the outbreak, as well as background on recent official indications of a general uptick in respiratory diseases and related burdens on the Chinese healthcare system. Separately, the WHO has reached out directly to its network of Chinese clinicians and scientists for independent information.

Once bitten, twice shy.

I don't think it's been declared a pandemic, nanna8. It's just an issue that's concerning people.

I wonder why these latest pandemics originate in China. Is it because of the size of their population, is it because of something in their diet or is it some experiment gone wrong ? I am sure we will never know but it would be helpful if we did, if only to avoid doing or exposing ourselves to whatever it is.

I am very worried because a close relative has recently returned from a month touring holiday from China. I don’t know if there are any symptoms but they visited about four different parts of the country. There is an incubation period which is the main concern.

We have to live with it, some will die no doubt as they do from flue. All life has its problems and I do think now we just have to accept it not going away, it's mutating quicker than we develop vacinnes.