James Cleverly….

MayBee70

Well, I swear like the proverbial trooper. Probably worse. But I know when not to swear. And I expect people like politicians, teachers etc to know that, too. I’m not criticising it because I get flustered by hearing foul language, I’m criticising it because someone in that position should know better. What if, when he was Foreign Secretary, he’d described another country in that way? Would that be acceptable?

It's not just Stockton. A fair number of MPs could have stood up in Parliament and asked the same question Alex Cunningham did. Does he think all those MPs (or their constituencies, depending on what you believe) are sh*tholes?

A recent report by the Resolution Foundation has shown that inequality has increased over the last 13 years. Far from "levelling up", there's been an increase in the number of people who are struggling. He should start looking at his own constituency, whose wealth has increased over the last couple of decades, partly as a result of London money moving out, but there are still pockets of real poverty. Maybe he thinks those pockets are sh*tholes too (or maybe their MP is responsible).

MaizieD

Oreo

Well, maybe it’s a generational thing, as I know many on here are my Mum’s age.
I just can’t get worked up by a muttered comment in Parliament whether said by a Tory MP or a Labour one.There are much worse things going on in politics.Opinions may vary.

I think an audible comment in Parliament, which is supposedly run by gentlemen's' rules, which rudely describes a highly disadvantaged area which his party has had 13 years to do something positive about, displays nothing but contempt for the country his lot are pretending to govern.

I perfectly able to fit worrying about the poor quality of ministers in with all the other things I worry about...

Maybe Oreo's right - could be a "generational" thing.

Expecting individuals in high-office, or holding prominent positions in government, etc, to have a certain amount of decency and integrity is rather quaintly old-fashioned!

I'm sure the people of Stockton will quite understand, now that they are benefitting from the Northern Powerhouse and all that Levelling Up... all that investment!

Well, I swear like the proverbial trooper. Probably worse. But I know when not to swear. And I expect people like politicians, teachers etc to know that, too. I’m not criticising it because I get flustered by hearing foul language, I’m criticising it because someone in that position should know better. What if, when he was Foreign Secretary, he’d described another country in that way? Would that be acceptable?

Oreo

Well, maybe it’s a generational thing, as I know many on here are my Mum’s age.
I just can’t get worked up by a muttered comment in Parliament whether said by a Tory MP or a Labour one.There are much worse things going on in politics.Opinions may vary.

Crikey, are you a Millennial Oreo?

Oreo

Well, maybe it’s a generational thing, as I know many on here are my Mum’s age.
I just can’t get worked up by a muttered comment in Parliament whether said by a Tory MP or a Labour one.There are much worse things going on in politics.Opinions may vary.

I think an audible comment in Parliament, which is supposedly run by gentlemen's' rules, which rudely describes a highly disadvantaged area which his party has had 13 years to do something positive about, displays nothing but contempt for the country his lot are pretending to govern.

I perfectly able to fit worrying about the poor quality of ministers in with all the other things I worry about...

Well, maybe it’s a generational thing, as I know many on here are my Mum’s age.
I just can’t get worked up by a muttered comment in Parliament whether said by a Tory MP or a Labour one.There are much worse things going on in politics.Opinions may vary.

Oreo

But people do expect saintly behaviour from MP’s in the UK that’s the problem.
Most of them most of the time manage to present themselves in a reasonable way but as said, they are human with human frailties and sometimes will feel angry or frustrated or irritable.
He muttered something that was picked up and is now getting the ‘how very dare he!’treatment.

But people do expect saintly behaviour from MP’s in the UK that’s the problem.

No, we don't expect saintly behaviour from them - and that isn't the problem.

It's the arrogant contempt embedded in the comment.

Clearly he was talking about a place not a person. And he's insulting the intelligence of those who heard him to pretend otherwise.

Oreo

But people do expect saintly behaviour from MP’s in the UK that’s the problem.
Most of them most of the time manage to present themselves in a reasonable way but as said, they are human with human frailties and sometimes will feel angry or frustrated or irritable.
He muttered something that was picked up and is now getting the ‘how very dare he!’treatment.

Imagine if your doctor muttered under his breath to the nurse as you were going into his consultation room ‘she’s a big old unit’ (example only!) or something similar. Would you think that was acceptable? I don’t, professionals should be constantly aware of their language and what they say when they are at work, it doesn’t matter who they are.

Looking at the context it seems to me that, when Alex Cunningham asked why so many of the children in his constituency were living in poverty, Cleverly’s response was because the constituency is a shithole. So much for a man chosen to be Home Secretary. So much for levelling up. It’s a word that the BBC wouldn’t allow to be used after the watershed.

But people do expect saintly behaviour from MP’s in the UK that’s the problem.
Most of them most of the time manage to present themselves in a reasonable way but as said, they are human with human frailties and sometimes will feel angry or frustrated or irritable.
He muttered something that was picked up and is now getting the ‘how very dare he!’treatment.

No one expects saintly MPs. Yes I’ve heard teenagers swearing Oreo, the kids I worked with could curse for England. That doesnt mean I allowed my children or now grandchildren to use obscene language to describe someone they disagreed with, or disliked
JCleverly was at work. My workplace heard all kinds of language but we didn’t use it towards colleagues in a formal meeting place which is what he did

I'm amazed that anyone is willing to defend him. Should we expect our MPs to be saints? Goodness no, but I do expect them to have manners and basic honesty, not a lot to expect surely?

Cleverly’s response was an insult to the people of Stockton and shows that this government couldn’t care less about the high level of deprivation there.

His language demonstrated that the last thing this government cares about is the people of this country.

That’s funny . He was at school with my friends son, will have to check

He is know in the Guardian as Jimmy Dimly! 👍

James Cleverly has apologised for being rude about Stockton-on-Tees, though the home secretary says his heckle of “shithole” in PMQs was about its MP.

This is pure Alice in Wonderland thinking. How on god's earth can he simultaneously apologise for being rude about poor Stockton and say it wasn't Stockton at all he was insulting but one of its MPs?

I'm amazed that anyone is prepared to give this Schrodinger's explanation the time of day...

Any place with that level of unemployment is going to be a bit of a shithole imo.

Please note, I have not laid any blame, politically or otherwise, about why this level of unemployment exists there (and in other places). I see it simply as fact that if over a quarter of working-age people are unemployed in a place then that place is suffering what might be called shit-dom.

I suspect he meant it in political terms, i.e. that he thinks Stockton North constituency is a shithole because it has a Labour MP.

Rude? Certainly. Politically a big deal? Nope.

This is by patrick Kidd:
"James Cleverly has apologised for being rude about Stockton-on-Tees, though the home secretary says his heckle of “shithole” in PMQs was about its MP. Stockton was good enough for Harold Macmillan, who was its MP before the war and took it as his earldom over Tory Bromley, his second seat. Just before he died in 1986 the former prime minister noted that in 1923, when he first fought the seat, unemployment in Stockton had been 29 per cent. “Last November it was 28 per cent,” he said. “A rather sad end to one’s life.”

I have ears Oreo and thought it was pretty clear.
I think he's a liar and there's no need to speak as he did in a professional environment.

We know the House is shouty and raucous but I find his comment unnecessary. He should just have held his hands up and said sorry. It would all be over now.

It makes him seem worse.

Have you heard how most schoolchildren talk? 😲
If he did say this, and it’s unproven, then I see it as a human muttered response, not meant to be really heard.Why do people expect MP’s to be saintlike.

Angela Rayner does seem to have polished her presentation as her confidence has grown. She didn’t lie or try to get out of admitting using language sone see as unparliamentary

Cleverly lied, it’s clear he lied. His lie didn’t even have him denying using offensive unnecessary language. Here we are, ordinary folks trying to ensure our children and grandchildren don’t use abusive language to others yet we have a Home Secretary doing it and lying

I listened to many tributes to Alistair Darling, I wish we had more MPs like him. He understood what was required of people in the public eye and had honesty and integrity. tbh I find the level of political debate in the commons pretty abysmal and the language used appalling. I remember the fuss about Angela Rayner using the word scum, and I said on this forum that if she wanted high public office she needed to moderate her language, now we have our Home Secretary calling another MP a sh......e, (or even worse the MP's constituency). Disgusting behaviour.

There used to be a respect amongst politicians of all parties, even during the Thatcher years. I don’t think there’s much respect for those in government at the moment. Ken Clark doesn’t have a good word to say about them: ditto Grieve, Soubry et al.

Ok👍🏻
I don’t think it’s so much that anything goes now as there’s no room to hide now, every blink, scowl and mutter is watched, heard, or leaked.

Oreo

MayBee70

So that’s it then. Cleverly says he wasn’t referring to Stockton on Tees when he said sh*****e although he now admits that he said it after trying to get away with it.
Deputy Speaker says matter is now closed. Speaker (weakest Speaker I’ve ever known) didn’t even have the decency to preside over it. Matter isn’t over as far as I’m concerned.

What are you going to do? 😁

He even lied to his fellow MP’s and made them look stupid; they said he didn’t need to apologise because he hadn’t said it. Alex Cunningham has been overwhelmed by the support he has received. I shall continue to write to the Speakers Office about this matter. Just as it’s not good for the country if there’s a weak opposition it’s not good for parliament to have such a weak Speaker. When an MP makes a stand against something that he feels is an injustice I think it’s up to the electorate to support them. And I don’t just support Labour or LibDem MP’s either. If a Conservative MP is brave enough to go against the whip I’ll thank them, too. And I’ve had some very entertaining exchange with some of them. Tony Benn once told me to by critical, not cynical and I shall continue to be critical when I see things happen that are just downright wrong.