Net Migration Shocker

Skydancer a post-graduate coming to do a PhD or granted a post-doctorial fellowship - and even some undergraduates may well be in their mid-20s or even older and will be married with children.

Almost everyone will be coming over here for three years and many cannot afford to return home until the end of their course. That is why they are given consent to bring their family with them. It seems to me a cruel and unusual punishment to say to anyone coming to study here for three years that they must separate themselves from their spouses and children for that period.

Even when you are in the army, except in times of active service, families travel with the soldier. I had just such a childhood, following the flag.

I don't understand why students would bring family members.Why?

DaisyAnneReturns

You dont need to read fancythat. Just watch, listen and, hopefully (as in that's what I always hope for), learn.

He's paid the subscriptions, followed those in the know and done the analysis for you.

Out of interest, do you watch the news or read a newspaper? It's just another way of getting information. I do "get" that some people don't want to engage with technology but it doesn't seem unreasonable to assume that of of this on GN a reasonable number might like getting information that way.

Not in 10 minute bites, no.
My DH says I have the concentration span of a gnat.
Makes watching films, um, interesting!

Oreo

Am a lifelong Labour supporter DAR tho I suspect you’re simply using the far right phrase as an insult.

Casdon I don’t think it would have been easy to make a huge change in immigration policies ( and implement them!) in the 13 years but they could sure have made a start.
Tony Blair’s government didn’t do anything either as they just saw money, a booming economy without caring about anything else.This problem really does go way back.

According to the Migration Observatory it started increasing from 1989 when Margaret Thatcher came into power, and it has increased slowly pretty much ever year since then. It’s economic decisions that have increased migration, and the answer is in the hands of the government of the day, whoever that is. For example, training more people to work in the NHS in the UK would drastically reduce the need to rely on overseas recruitment. If that was adopted as a government strategy, then yes, you could do it in 13 years. You can’t have the penny and the bun.

Do you have any experience of independent boarding schools and foreign students DAR?
I would be very interested to hear of your personal experiences re independent boarding schools and foreign students.

Please stop insulting me DAR.
You do yourself no favours at all.
Everyone on this site is reading it.

No one can teach me anything

You may well be right mo.

I will point out to you NotSpaghetti, that my husband worked in an independent school, which took both boarders and day pupils, for 36 years. They took many Chinese pupils, as well as pupils from Russia, and many African states, as well as British pupils. No pupil had a parent accompany them, they arrived at the airport and were picked up by the school. They lived in the boarding houses, and either went home in the holidays or stayed with British friends as house guests.
The only time a parent arrived with a boy, after arrival at the school, the pair disappeared, somewhere into the black economy was presumed, as they never reappeared.
No one can teach me anything about independent boarding schools and foreign students, since we have had 36 years of experience with this.

NotSpaghetti

Maddyone - maybe, when you say mothers have been coming with students some people perhaps don't realise why, or how.
They are not adult students - they are children attending independent schools whose patents are able to live for a short time over here...

You can only apply for a Parent of a Child Student visa if your child has or is applying for a Child Student visa.

Your child must be aged between 4 and 11 when you apply, and be attending an independent school in the UK.
(Source: gov.uk)

You must also be the only parent accompanying your child in the UK
have enough money to support yourself (and your child) in the UK
and maintain your main home outside the UK. You must also plan to leave the UK when your visa expires.

I hardly dare say this but great research NotSpaghetti.

were where

M0nica

DAR let me be clear this problem with immigration is a long term problem, The planning I consider necessary should have started back in the 1970s and 1980s and every government since then has failed this country, again and again and again, Labour every bit as much as Conservatives.

With every year that passes the problem becomes more and more difficult. Even if this government had addressed the issue the process of investigating, planning and implementing would mean that we could not reasonably expect to see any results of it until 2030 or later. This is why previous governments have to bear a weight of responsibility ever bit as that lying on the shoulders of this government.

I agree migration is a long-term problem M0nica. I also looks as if it will be a future and growing problem for many countries. As we were planning with the EU were such problem are concerned I do not believe there was the lack of planning we now see.

Generally, lack of planning is a fault of our form of democracy.

Remind me never to try and compliment anyone on GN!

Maddyone - maybe, when you say mothers have been coming with students some people perhaps don't realise why, or how.
They are not adult students - they are children attending independent schools whose patents are able to live for a short time over here...

You can only apply for a Parent of a Child Student visa if your child has or is applying for a Child Student visa.

Your child must be aged between 4 and 11 when you apply, and be attending an independent school in the UK.
(Source: gov.uk)

You must also be the only parent accompanying your child in the UK
have enough money to support yourself (and your child) in the UK
and maintain your main home outside the UK. You must also plan to leave the UK when your visa expires.

Oreo where did I say far-right?

DAR let me be clear this problem with immigration is a long term problem, The planning I consider necessary should have started back in the 1970s and 1980s and every government since then has failed this country, again and again and again, Labour every bit as much as Conservatives.

With every year that passes the problem becomes more and more difficult. Even if this government had addressed the issue the process of investigating, planning and implementing would mean that we could not reasonably expect to see any results of it until 2030 or later. This is why previous governments have to bear a weight of responsibility ever bit as that lying on the shoulders of this government.

Am a lifelong Labour supporter DAR tho I suspect you’re simply using the far right phrase as an insult.

Casdon I don’t think it would have been easy to make a huge change in immigration policies ( and implement them!) in the 13 years but they could sure have made a start.
Tony Blair’s government didn’t do anything either as they just saw money, a booming economy without caring about anything else.This problem really does go way back.

DaisyAnneReturns

I did read her post "Oreo". I did see that she was talking about the failure of planning over decades. Why have you decided that I may not point to this government specifically, if I chose to?

The GN right-wing seem a little on edge today.

I do think 13 years in power is long enough for any party to make a huge change if the will is there to do so. It means changing investment patterns though rather than relying on foreign income and skills.

It has been said that Sunak wants high levels of immigration because it is thought to boost the economy. However unfortunately this has barely happened despite high immigration. It will not be different under Labour, although I think we desperately need a change of government. It looks as though we are destined to have high levels of immigration for the foreseeable future.

Dinahmo

Only 3% of that figure are people arriving on boats (ilegally as some would say)

The remainder are here on visas.

"as some would say"? They ARE here illegally. I don't know about "some", everyone should be saying it. Fact.

MayBee70

Iam64

They are MaizieD
A friend who was a senior manager at three different universities said they depended on foreign students
My local university has a large number of students from China

Nottingham University is full of Chinese students: has been for as long as I can remember. There is even a copy of one of their main buildings somewhere in China. They have very close links.

You know me, I have find these things out!

According to HESA total enrolment figures for the top 10 sending countries to the UK in 2021-22 were:

China (151,690)
India (126,535)
Nigeria (44,195)
Pakistan (23,075)
United States (22,990)
Hong Kong (17,630)
Bangladesh (12,700)
Malaysia (12,135)
France (11,870)
Italy (11,320)

A fifth of all university income comes from overseas students and they pay on average £22K p.a. for an undergraduate course. This helps to keep fees down for UK students and enables them to keep courses that would not be viable without overseas students.
Nearly 100K work visas were issued to immigrants so they could work in the NHS, we could not run many of our hospitals without them. 78K visas were issued to people to work in health and social care. This is out of a total of 267.6K work visas.
I had an American staying with me last summer, she's been here on a student visa since 2015 doing a variety of different training/university courses. She's here quite legally, and is completely self supporting, doesn't have a work visa and doesn't need to work although she finished her masters at the end of last year. A high proportion of overseas students come from very wealthy families. My daughter has a couple from New Zealand staying with her both on NHS work visas both well qualified. When they are not working they are travelling to different European countries, it's basically their "gap" year. They will return to NZ when they've had enough of travelling. Most legal migrants bring money and their skills and training to this country, which adds to our economy it's just a pity that some of that benefit is not used to support the infrastructure. That's a govt decision and not the fault of people who are here quite legally.

I did read her post "Oreo". I did see that she was talking about the failure of planning over decades. Why have you decided that I may not point to this government specifically, if I chose to?

The GN right-wing seem a little on edge today.

Last night on Sophie Ridge's programme on Sky the political editor broke down the figures into different groups - 97% were in the UK with visas. A large proportion were people who'd come to work in the health and care sectors - 40% give or take.

It’s just been too easy for successive governments to ignore the problem with too much immigration, as long as they think money is rolling in they haven’t cared about the effect on the population or lack of housing and other facilities.

Border control are aware Oreo. They know who comes into the country and who leaves, and therefore it’s known when people fail to leave when their visa expires. As you say, it’s been known for a long time, and as people can’t work without a visa, they work in the black economy. It’s thought that a huge amount of money is lost from the taxes and NI not paid as a result of this.

Iam64

They are MaizieD
A friend who was a senior manager at three different universities said they depended on foreign students
My local university has a large number of students from China

Nottingham University is full of Chinese students: has been for as long as I can remember. There is even a copy of one of their main buildings somewhere in China. They have very close links.