What is going on in Starmer's brain?

Starmer provided the media with a sound bite which will be widely quoted out of context. He may come to regret it.

M0nica

Well, Casdon he is in need of all the support he can get.

He seems to have plenty of support.

Well, Casdon he is in need of all the support he can get.

Luckygirl3

I am not doubting his intelligence, just querying the wisdom of writing what he did - he will need to be more media savvy if he is going to get elected. The headline-creation from the Thatcher comment was entirely predictable.

And, no doubt, deliberate. It hit the headlines, raised his profile, caused people to read more about what he’d actually said. I really do think he knows exactly what he’s doing.

Maybe he’s noticed that the more publicity Trump gets, no matter how adverse it is, the more his popularity grows!

I am not doubting his intelligence, just querying the wisdom of writing what he did - he will need to be more media savvy if he is going to get elected. The headline-creation from the Thatcher comment was entirely predictable.

Thank you, Iam I keep away from the political threads most of the time, as I am not a competitive debater. However, when starmer first moved into the limelight, I did think he appeared to have a lot more gravitas than the average current politician, and what I have heard of him since, and saw in an interview where he answered questions on his previous career and why he had taken the paths he had chosen, that was reinforced. In his youth his parents were a model of helping the community, in which he joined them.

He trained as a lawyer to use the law to help the people he could not assist when he didn't have the legal knowledge or the opportunity in the courts to do so, and then he went from law to politics when he discovered that using the law wasn't enough, he needed to be in Westminster where laws were discussed and created. He is now leader of his party, and stands a very good chance of becoming the leader of the country and initiating legislation.

He also has a very good brain - one which plans and researches. When he mentioned Margaret Thatcher, (along with other PMs who changed the direction in which the country was going) then he did so knowing full well what he was doing. Perhaps he was staking a claim to get his own name there with them in the future as a PM who made a difference?

He wasn't praising her, he was stating that she got things done, unlike the current government. He wasn't praising what she got done by any stretch, just saying that she had clear plans and wasn't afraid to carry them out. Unfortunately, as it turns out.

Growstuff 👍🏻

As a result of this thread, I dug out what Starmer actually said. Well said Elegran.

Whenever the question "who has been the most effective post-war PM?" is asked in a poll, the leading contenders are usually Attlee and Thatcher. The two couldn't be more different in what they believed and achieved, but they did have a single-mindedness in common, which I think people respect. Both did change British society (for bad or good, depending on your viewpoint) and my impression is that's what Starmer meant.

Well said Casdon (19.42 today)

My work led me to ‘know’ Starmer when he was heading the CPS/DWP. I admired him then. I heard him pitch his leadership bid at hustings with Long Bailey and Lisa Nandy. I liked LN but Starmer’s confidence, experience and statements about how he’d lead the party had me voting for him.

It seems naive to suggest he and his advisors didn’t anticipate the responses from left and right to his speech, particularly his Thatcher references.

A word of thanks to Elegran for her contributions here. As ever, calm, well informed, grounded and good analysis.

Casdon

M0nica

What is going on in Starmer's brain? Nothing!

That is why he rabbits on so aimlessly.

Like any grammar school boy who through his own efforts becomes Queens counsel, Director of Public Prosecutions, then in five years after being elected as an MP becomes the Leader of the Opposition, and highly likely to become PM. He’s clearly got nothing going on upstairs.

I hereby award the prize for "Sarcasm of the Day"!

M0nica

What is going on in Starmer's brain? Nothing!

That is why he rabbits on so aimlessly.

Like any grammar school boy who through his own efforts becomes Queens counsel, Director of Public Prosecutions, then in five years after being elected as an MP becomes the Leader of the Opposition, and highly likely to become PM. He’s clearly got nothing going on upstairs.

As I understand it, Starmer meant he respected her determination to get things done and to have a plan for the UK. He does not agree with her policies. Think he is just reflecting that we need a strong leader and an united government to lead the country. He is a man with a plan 😊

What is going on in Starmer's brain? Nothing!

That is why he rabbits on so aimlessly.

DaisyAnneReturns

I'm sure he, and those working with him did consider that nightowl They, I rather think, know a great deal more about than either you or I do about winning an election.

Giving you the benefit of the doubt however, I'm sure you are aware that, to have any power to change the direction of politics, your party (at least I assume it's your party) must first become the government. To do that they need people who have, in the past, voted Conservative. Where do you think, is a good place to find a Conservative audience? The paper often know as the Torygraph seems like a good start.

Why do you think you know better? Have you read what he wrote? My guess would be not. So what was the purpose of your post? What exactly did you achieve?

This is the only time Starmer mentioned Thatcher. Did he praise her, as the Telegraph said he had. No. They lied.

Every moment of meaningful change in modern British politics begins with the realisation that politics must act in service of the British people, rather than dictating to them. Margaret Thatcher sought to drag Britain out of its stupor by setting loose our natural entrepreneurialism. Tony Blair reimagined a stale, outdated Labour Party into one that could seize the optimism of the late 90s. A century ago, Clement Attlee wrote that Labour must be a party of duty and patriotism, not abstract theory. To build a “New Jerusalem” meant first casting off the mind-forged manacles. That lesson is as true today as it was then.

But, it appears that you would rather believe Telegraph writers than the actual words that were written.

Starmer is right. We need a completely transformative government. Where many old style Labour members (I won't call them supporters because they don’t) have got it wrong is that we cannot try simply returning to 1970's Labour. That isn't what the country needs nor is it what the country will vote for.

Sorry to hark back a few pages DAR but I have only just seen your response to my post.

Labour are not ‘my party’ but a party I have historically supported. Believe it or not I do not accept everything they do or say without question but can apply critical thinking.

You are wrong, I had read what Starmer had written before posting (but not the whole article because of the paywall).

I did not post in order to ‘achieve’ anything. I simply expressed my point of view, which I thought was the point of gransnet forums. I don’t think I ‘know better’ than Starmer or his advisers but I am as qualified as you or anyone to comment on how his words might be received. Margaret Thatcher is someone who raises very strong feelings in the industrial north. He is foolish if he does not realise this. He has to realise that he can’t appeal to everyone, nor be all things to all people.

I find your tone rude and patronising. Just because you disagree with someone there is really no need to dismiss them as ‘idiots’ or suggest they have no right to an opinion. There are many other people, including political commentators whose opinion you may respect, who are saying that Starmer has made an error of judgment here. This is not as simple as you are trying to make out.

He was trying to describe how various leaders had changed the face of the UK at no time has he said he agreed with Thatcher and her policies/decisions! It is a descriptive piece of writing without any inference to what he actually wants to occur should Labour get into power
As usual our might media moguls print what they want us to read and limit the dialogue !!!

MaizieD

^Obviously I don't actually know that your view is correcect or not until I check for myself - which will not be soon. My post merely treated yours as small talk or perhaps a (biased) personal opinion.^

Well, DAR, as I'm one of the rare few who actually have a Guardian delivered to my home daily, which I read, I don't think that my judgement of Toynbee's stance has anything to do with my bias (whatever it may be). I'm going by what she writes...

Polly Toynbee is a Social Democrat isn’t she, so quite centrist. I must admit I’ve never seen her being overly critical of Starmer. I quite like her, she is amusing so writes a good column , unlike Owen Jones who I see as the poster boy of the left and who comes across as a bit of a pillock, I read but don’t take any notice of him.

I have come to view Owen Jones as the Jeremy Clarkson of the left. I can only assume he says what he does in order to get a reaction. I also assume he is trying to get himself sacked from the Guardian.

Obviously I don't actually know that your view is correcect or not until I check for myself - which will not be soon. My post merely treated yours as small talk or perhaps a (biased) personal opinion.

Well, DAR, as I'm one of the rare few who actually have a Guardian delivered to my home daily, which I read, I don't think that my judgement of Toynbee's stance has anything to do with my bias (whatever it may be). I'm going by what she writes...

tactical.vote/all/

This is a great website!

I'm going to find it very hard to vote for him.

But Louella12, if you vote Labour you won’t be voting for Keir Starmer - you will be voting for the Labour Party, of which he happens to be the leader. When people voted Conservative in the 2019 election they probably didn’t expect they would end up with Sunak as PM. But that’s how our system works - in a GE you’re voting for a political party NOT for that party’s leader.

KS would do better to concentrate on telling the electorate what he Can prioritise to make this country a better and more compassionate place to live. And the measures he Can take to ensure that future cuts/austerities fall on the broadest shoulders not the frailest.

Indeed so!

I assume that everyone criticising him listened to today’s speech in its entirety? I actually didn’t because I’m still shattered after travelling home the other day and, to be honest I’m voting Labour anyway (just as I did when Corbyn was leader) because they’re the only alternative to a Conservative government that even ex Conservative MP’s are in despair of. As for Owen Jones, I can’t be bothered to repeat what I think of him. I assume he just wants to be in permanent opposition so he can whinge about not just the government but his own party, too.

MaizieD

DaisyAnneReturns

MaizieD

DaisyAnneReturns

I only noticed The Guardian being behind Starmer whe they were aiming a foot at him Ilovecheese. He is certainly not popular with Polly Toynbee, et al.

Well, that's odd, DAR, because Toynbee has been consistently pro Starmer for months and months...

I have to admit I got so fed up with her I stopped reading her. Glad to hear sense has prevailed.

Oh, come on DAR. No apology for posting misinformation?

I was trying to be polite Maizie (and avoid your frequent digs)

Obviously I don't actually know that your view is correcect or not until I check for myself - which will not be soon. My post merely treated yours as small talk or perhaps a (biased) personal opinion.