So yet another gov. minister has gone....

MayBee70

Freya5

MayBee70

It just dawned on me that, if the Rwanda bill has to go through the HOL’s Cameron ( unelected) can vote for it.

Didn't you know, they're all unelected in the HoL, not just the ones you dislike ?

Yes, of course I know that. My point is that I thought PMs could give peoples titles when they retire etc but I didn’t realise they could just get people into the HOL’s whenever it suits them politically. We could have a whole cabinet made up of people that aren’t answerable to parliament.

Cameron isn't a precedent though, it's been done before. From at least Thatcher's days.

Technically, the House of Lords is part of the Legislature (Parliament), not the Executive (government). So whether elected or not, a member of the HoL is a member of the Legislature which holds the Executive to account and has the final vote on whether or not a Bill can pass into statute law. That is why the Lords can amend Bills, vote against them and hold them up. They are part of the sovereign bit of Parliament.

What is a problem is that Cameron can't go the the House of Commons to be questioned in the way that an SoS would normally be.

I am voting reform too

Has anyone got any ideas that may actually work? We have wracked our brains and couldn’t come up with anything. The Danes seem to have it sorted, not sure if it would work for us.

My concern about these boats is that they are dangerous and cost people’s lives, they take take up resource of our volunteer lifeboat service and they line criminal traffickers pockets. Once these people arrive many just disappear into the black economy and into modern slavery where their lives are almost as bad as that from which they’re escaping.

They form 3% of our migrants, this govt won Brexit in the back of controlling our borders, net legal migration is higher than ever before, this govt is an absolute disgrace!

Home office is utterly inefficient and need to get their act together processing people.

As for many more men coming, we used to have neighbours from Zimbabwe, the husband can NEVER return to his homeland as he will be killed, he spoke out publicly about the govt, he can here first then sent for his family. As soon as he was “processed” he got work and all his children attended school and the family were a delight.

Not all lone males coming in small boats are terrorists and/or criminals.

Bazza, yes, we could work far more closely with the French and process applications in France. We could become far more efficient in processing all asylum seekers and then returning those who don’t qualify. We could make the routes for entering and requesting asylum easier and more transparent. We could issue special visas to allow them to work whilst waiting to get leave to remain,

In terms of legal migration, we could ask for evidence of coming here into an already obtained job and use a points system (instead of salary levels) to bring people into the professions we require and we could ensure that areas with more housing and schools etc are where migrants are settled.

This would be a good start imo.

this govt won Brexit in the back of controlling our borders, net legal migration is higher than ever before,

But, as was pointed out earlier (in this thread, I think) Leave campaigners didn't say Brexit would cut immigration. They just said it would stop freedom of movement. Which it has. So, apart from the asylum seekers arriving by boat, we are controlling our borders, by insisting that all entrants have a visa. And it is the Home Office that is handing out the visas...

Numbers look worse now because the EU citizens entering via FoM were never counted in the immigration figures.

Well, it’s certainly cut my freedom of movement ( and my dog’s).

Here here

If these young men on the boats are genuine asylum seekers why do they not feel safe in France? Why do they want to come here?
Of course they are not seeking asylum. The majority have paid for a passage on a boat, they are economic migrants and we are paying for their upkeep.
Some people in this coiuntry are far too soft and gullible. VOTE REFORM and let's get some action.

yellowfox

If these young men on the boats are genuine asylum seekers why do they not feel safe in France? Why do they want to come here?
Of course they are not seeking asylum. The majority have paid for a passage on a boat, they are economic migrants and we are paying for their upkeep.
Some people in this coiuntry are far too soft and gullible. VOTE REFORM and let's get some action.

A friend of mine helps with a support group for asylum seekers. You should hear some of their tragic stories. But I suppose you’d think they are lying

I think it would be helpful if posters like yellowfox actually learned about international law for asylum seekers and 'safe countries. They are under no legal obligation whatsoever to stay in the first 'safe country' they reach. Which, in most cases is unlikely to be France at all, the geography of Europe being what it is

I am sick to death of xenophobia

Lin663 you said it for me …thank you
Maybee I spent 5 years helping with the refugees from Syria and some of the most highly educated people I ve met who would be such a bonus to this country if they could ever get their claims processed

Give me a boat load of refugees in exchange for some home grown paedophiles, rapists, drug induced thugs and racists
Happy exchange

ninamoore: did you really, really believe that?

Reform sounds a much better option than either the Conservatives or Labour, neither of whom seem to be listening to the public who they are supposed to be working for. Where are the Lib Dem’s and why are they staying in the background and not projecting themselves when they could be talking about themselves and taking every chance to let us know about themselves and their aspirations.

“Give me a boat load of refugees in exchange for some home grown paedophiles, rapists, drug induced thugs and racists
Happy exchange”

Here here Bluebelle. I must say, I’m shocked at those on GN saying they will vote Reform!

Just watching Sky News. We can’t go on like this: it’s ridiculous. The vile Bill Cash ( who I always get mixed up with Peter Bone) is calling the shots. Who the hell is governing this country?? We have to have an election.

Grantanow

Rwanda took the moral high ground over the Tories by refusing to sign anything that breached international humanitarian conventions. The Tory Bill to prevent judges from reviewing Ministers' decisions about refugees is morally bankrupt and the start of a slippery slope. Which Tory decisions would be next to be protected from scrutiny?

Spot on. The removal of human rights won’t apply only to asylum seekers. Once the government realise they can do it we will all suffer.

Pippa22

Reform sounds a much better option than either the Conservatives or Labour, neither of whom seem to be listening to the public who they are supposed to be working for. Where are the Lib Dem’s and why are they staying in the background and not projecting themselves when they could be talking about themselves and taking every chance to let us know about themselves and their aspirations.

Well if you think that Truss’s policies are the answer to the country’s ills then you will no doubt vote Reform, as they seem to have swallowed her ideas lock stock and barrel.

For myself - no😮😮

I’m hoping lots of people do vote for Reform, as it will maximise the seats going to Labour!

Don't be so sure that Labour voters who gave their vote to The Tories to get Brexit done will now go back to voting Labour, I personally don't think so I think a lot will turn to Reform especially in the Red Wall seats.

"BlueBelle Sun 10-Dec-23 15:55:18
Lin663 you said it for me …thank you
Maybee I spent 5 years helping with the refugees from Syria and some of the most highly educated people I ve met who would be such a bonus to this country if they could ever get their claims processed

Give me a boat load of refugees in exchange for some home grown paedophiles, rapists, drug induced thugs and racists
Happy exchange"

Thank you for the voice of reason - and I'd also want to swap out the MP's, ministers and their friends who have pocketed millions from the public purse for duff PPE, aborted 'grand schemes' such as this, the garden bridge, the bridge between Scotland and NI and HS2, The quarter billion already gone to Rwanda etc.
The vast majority of immigrants add a huge amount to our society, without them we'd struggle in all aspects. From doctors to care workers, academics to delivery drivers, we depend on immigrants for our society to function.

Nicenanny3

Don't be so sure that Labour voters who gave their vote to The Tories to get Brexit done will now go back to voting Labour, I personally don't think so I think a lot will turn to Reform especially in the Red Wall seats.

According to the latest poll nowhere near enough people will vote Reform to make any difference Nicenanny3.
redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-red-wall-voting-intention-19-november-2023/

I have great sympathy with real asylum seekers and we have welcomed many from different areas. However, I still think most of these people on the boats are not refugees.
Once in France they arein a safe country and if they want to come to Britain they should go through the correct channels.
Our infrastructure cannot support all these young men.

yellowfox

I have great sympathy with real asylum seekers and we have welcomed many from different areas. However, I still think most of these people on the boats are not refugees.
Once in France they arein a safe country and if they want to come to Britain they should go through the correct channels.
Our infrastructure cannot support all these young men.

!) We will not know if the people who arrive on the boats are genuine asylum seekers until their applications for asylum have been processed, which the government is failing to do. Your 'thoughts' are irrelevant.

2) There are no 'correct channels' available for these people. If there are no 'correct channels' available it id inevitable that they will try alternative means to reach the UK

3) Under international law on asylum seekers there is absolutely no obligation for them to stop in France. This point has been made over and over again; it completely invalidates what you are saying.

4) Not all of the asylum seekers are young men, but it's not surprising that many of them are because they are the most likely to be able survive the journey they have to make from their countries to reach a country in which they wish to claim asylum.

5) The lack of infrastructure is entirely due to the decisions made by governments over the past decade or so. It is not the fault of the asylum seekers.