Britain needs a new economic strategy to end its stagnation and close its £8,300 living standards gap with its peers.

M0nica thanks that’s the orthodox position.

ronib what is the alternative view? And what is the scientific support for it?

M0nica maybe after Christmas….. but briefly I am very unsure about science replacing religion as a belief system. There’s a lot of thinking about the philosophy of science and how it conducts enquiries which has always fascinated me.

ronib

M0nica thanks that’s the orthodox position.

That is the position that climatologists, environmentalists etc are working with.

For example, sea level changes can actually be measured just in our life time on the south coast with rivers rising year on year and millions of pounds spent on mitigation.

ronib

M0nica maybe after Christmas….. but briefly I am very unsure about science replacing religion as a belief system. There’s a lot of thinking about the philosophy of science and how it conducts enquiries which has always fascinated me.

Blimey!!

I meant to add that I thought we’d come through the enlightenment 250 years ago, but clearly it by-passed some people!

Wwm2 when science replaces religion we have a problem?
Thomas Kuhn, Karl Popper - it’s okay for the dominant scientific model to be tested and found wanting. Isn’t that how science progresses?

As a humanist I take the exact opposite position😄

Wwm2 science as a belief system will never answer all of our questions but that’s your prerogative of course.

How is science a belief system?

Growstuff you have heard of the scientific method?

ronib

Growstuff you have heard of the scientific method?

Nah! I'll ask my partner, who is a a professor of biochemistry at a Russell Group uni

So how is science a belief system?

As far as I am concerned, religion is a closed belief system with no channel through which to change, regardless of evidence.

Science is quite the opposite and changes as empirical evidence presents itself. It is a progressive system without which we would still be in the dark ages - religion would have nothing to offer when evidence presents itself.

Growstuff well yes what a good idea to ask your partner about Karl Popper and Thomas Kuhn. I hope he can explain it to you.

ronib

Growstuff well yes what a good idea to ask your partner about Karl Popper and Thomas Kuhn. I hope he can explain it to you.

Blimey!

Wwm2 yes of course empirical evidence is the cornerstone of good scientific evidence but… even evidence is questionable when it comes to climate science.
Back to my Christmas cards ….

Katie59

I deliberately used the word “addicted” because we could travel less, we could fly less, we could use more public transport, we are not doing any of that.

Maybe in 50 yrs we will have energy independance, the cost will be massive

I doubt that more public transport could be used. It's not available in many areas and it's also too expensive.

I cannot believe the exchange I've just been reading 😱

MaizieD

I cannot believe the exchange I've just been reading 😱

Many of the consequences of Global warming are just speculation not science, they are theories not proven, scientists may well largely agree, but nobody is going get a research grant to disprove the theories

I don't think you understand the difference between the scientific meaning of 'theory' and the common or garden one,, Katie59.

Maizie is right. A scientific "theory" isn't the same as a hypotheses. It isn't just somebody's hunch or guess. A scientific theory is tested all the time until somebody comes up with something better and the theory can be disproven. Scientists accept that their knowledge isn't perfect and can only be as good as the current state of knowledge.

Katie59

MaizieD

I cannot believe the exchange I've just been reading 😱

Many of the consequences of Global warming are just speculation not science, they are theories not proven, scientists may well largely agree, but nobody is going get a research grant to disprove the theories

Global warming can be observed. It's happening and is a fact. There are scientific theories about why it's happening, which are tested, but it's futile to argue that it's not happening. It's not just a belief.

The big questions are what we do about it because there will be consequences whatever course of action is taken.

ronib

Growstuff well yes what a good idea to ask your partner about Karl Popper and Thomas Kuhn. I hope he can explain it to you.

He surprises me at times by what he knows.

I guess that's why he's a professor and I'm not.

Katie59

MaizieD

I cannot believe the exchange I've just been reading 😱

Many of the consequences of Global warming are just speculation not science, they are theories not proven, scientists may well largely agree, but nobody is going get a research grant to disprove the theories

Many would disagree with you Katie. I would guess your opinions are those of a very small minority.

Why leave our children and grandchildren even the possibility of a dying world. I certainly prefer to listen to the views of scientists to those of conspiracy theorists.