Migration comparison

Freya5

growstuff

I wonder if people realise how much foreign students are charged for degrees in the UK. Courses usually cost about three times as much for foreign students, so nearly £30,000 a year plus the students have to fund their own rent and maintenance.

Education at British universities is a successful export.

All students have to fund their own rent, and maintenance not just foreign ones. Or are you saying we should fund it for them.
I believe it is their choice to study overseas, and all that goes with it.

I suggested nothing of the sort!!

What I have said is that foreign students bring in overseas income to the UK - nearly £10 billion at the last count just for fees. They also bring in income to pay for rents and their maintenance, which benefits local economies.

The University of Sunderland derives 41% of its income from foreign students. Without the money to subsidise courses, it would struggle to offer all the courses it does. The money foreign students bring with them is spent in the local economy, so provides jobs in an area of high unemployment.

PS. UK students are able to take out loans for fees and maintenance, which overseas students can't do.

growstuff

I wonder if people realise how much foreign students are charged for degrees in the UK. Courses usually cost about three times as much for foreign students, so nearly £30,000 a year plus the students have to fund their own rent and maintenance.

Education at British universities is a successful export.

All students have to fund their own rent, and maintenance not just foreign ones. Or are you saying we should fund it for them.
I believe it is their choice to study overseas, and all that goes with it.

If Australia is actively recruiting immigrants why didn't our government make arrangements to send all the illegal immigrants to Australia rather than Rwanda?

Many illegal immigrants ar professional people,: doctors, engineers, teachers, all the professions that Australia needs as much as we do.

DaisyAnneReturns

Glorianny

Living in an area whose whole economy relies to a huge extent on overseas students I don't think anything can be done (or should be done) about them. The local universities actively recruit overseas The most development in the town is building of student flats. We have shops which supply goods specifically for them. I doubt if the universities could survive without the huge amounts they charge those students. And our local economy would certainly suffer.

This has to be a first - well said Glorianny. If we are to get growth in our country it seems likely that this will have to be mainly in the service area. We cannot keep thinking of that as simply the people who gamble on the stock market, or only London-centric work and workers.

What worries me is that so many of those who decry certain degrees as Micky Mouse ones, are actually showing a lack of knowledge in those growth areas of the service industries. I get why they do that; it is not the world we grew up and lived in. However, a little understanding that things continuously change would help.

We certainly cannot compete in low priced, quick turnover end of manufacturing although we can compete in the thin layer at the top of this genre.

Hopefully people (including those in power) will begin to see that we can have growth but that, just as we had to change from agrarian to industrial we can use our talents and skills in yet another area and in more areas of the country.

Thanks DAR
It's good to know we can agree on something
I think people do fail to realise what a huge commercial concern universities are now and how that depends on foreign students. It took me a while to appreciate that they are not just academic institutions as they once were.

You can disappear in Australia if you want to. Separate states, different rules for each and vast distances. Not so easy as it once was but still possible.

Lots of posts I totally agree with, MOnica, DAR Glorianny etc

What puzzles me is why people seem to think it is easy to disappear but still take advantage of our hospitals, benefit systems, schools etc. It is not and whilst "working for cash in hand" is possible it is much more of a problem with legit tradesmen, businesses etc than with foreign students who have overstayed and tax dodging is probably much more of an issue with wealthy people (remember Nadhim Zahawi?).

Calendargirl

I wasn’t talking about ‘prejudices’ DAR

I was meaning the difficulty in getting GP appointments, resulting in big queues in A&E.

Also not nearly enough workers in the care industry.

Just like us then, but I realise I was straying from the original issues raised.

Given that most immigrants are young(ish) whether with visas or "illegal" I doubt that they are causing long queues in A & E. The main cause I think is the numbers of elderly people.

As some of you know I live in France having moved here 15 years ago. Since retirement my DH and I have had several health problems not previously experienced. I have often felt like a health tourist. I am grateful that we did move here because the system, especially the support system is brilliant.
My DH had a new knee in May and is still receiving physio twice a week. According to the surgeon (last visit last week) the front thigh muscles are not as strong as those in his other leg. A client in London fell and broke her right elbow in the summer. She can only have physio on the NHS once a month so she is paying £355 per month for private physio.

I could give several other examples of how good the system is and I'm sure that there will be some who have complaints. Everyone I know is very positive about the French system - all of us being over 60.

I wonder if people realise how much foreign students are charged for degrees in the UK. Courses usually cost about three times as much for foreign students, so nearly £30,000 a year plus the students have to fund their own rent and maintenance.

Education at British universities is a successful export.

Calendargirl

I wasn’t talking about ‘prejudices’ DAR

I was meaning the difficulty in getting GP appointments, resulting in big queues in A&E.

Also not nearly enough workers in the care industry.

Just like us then, but I realise I was straying from the original issues raised.

Australia has a policy to grow through immigration, even ghe right-wing want the population to grow. I don't think you could describe the UK as having such a policy. If they have this government is doing their best to disguise it.

I think it is fair to say that the problem in Britain is that immigration is being used as a smokescreen for underfunding public services.

If they wanted a compare countries I think the OP could have found ones with issues and challenges closer to ours.

Calendargirl

I wasn’t talking about ‘prejudices’ DAR

I was meaning the difficulty in getting GP appointments, resulting in big queues in A&E.

Also not nearly enough workers in the care industry.

Just like us then, but I realise I was straying from the original issues raised.

Students make very little use of the NHS. Areas with a high number of students often have short waiting times for GP appointments. Students register with a practice and the practice is paid for having them on their books, even though students are generally fit and healthy. That means that there are more resources available for the non-student population.

Glorianny

Living in an area whose whole economy relies to a huge extent on overseas students I don't think anything can be done (or should be done) about them. The local universities actively recruit overseas The most development in the town is building of student flats. We have shops which supply goods specifically for them. I doubt if the universities could survive without the huge amounts they charge those students. And our local economy would certainly suffer.

This has to be a first - well said Glorianny. If we are to get growth in our country it seems likely that this will have to be mainly in the service area. We cannot keep thinking of that as simply the people who gamble on the stock market, or only London-centric work and workers.

What worries me is that so many of those who decry certain degrees as Micky Mouse ones, are actually showing a lack of knowledge in those growth areas of the service industries. I get why they do that; it is not the world we grew up and lived in. However, a little understanding that things continuously change would help.

We certainly cannot compete in low priced, quick turnover end of manufacturing although we can compete in the thin layer at the top of this genre.

Hopefully people (including those in power) will begin to see that we can have growth but that, just as we had to change from agrarian to industrial we can use our talents and skills in yet another area and in more areas of the country.

I wasn’t talking about ‘prejudices’ DAR

I was meaning the difficulty in getting GP appointments, resulting in big queues in A&E.

Also not nearly enough workers in the care industry.

Just like us then, but I realise I was straying from the original issues raised.

Good post Monica.

But I'm afraid that some people just have nasty suspicious minds and don't like foreigners...

Coronation I think you have been reading too many rightwing blogs.

This country is not so wonderful that anyone that studies here wants to stay here. Foreign students come from all over the workd, Canada, the USA, every European country, Australia, new Zealand, japan, China as well as those nasty places like Africa and Asia, and all most of them want to do at the end of their studies, even if they come from nasty palces in Africa and Asia, is go back home to their families and to have successful careers in the comfortable economies they come from where, frequently their health service is a darn sight better than ours, as are their education systems, and housing is cheaper.

As for the families, if someone sent you or your husband to another country to work or study for three years, how would you feel about being separated for that long, especially if you had small children?

The majority of students, especially the young ones are not married so the question dooesn't arise.

The vast majority of immogrants come here quite legally to fill jobs in the NHS and Care system. The vast majority of students (and their families) go home at the end of their studies. Hopefully with happy memories that make them think kindly of us when they reach posts of power in companies and government in their country.

haven't you notice when heads of government and senior international people visit here, how many spent part of their education in the UK? - and how few of ours have.

Illegal immigrants ar a tiny fraction of the total entirely legal welcomed immigrants. Stop all these al;armist talk unless you have clear datat to back your assertions.

Calendargirl

I think, like me, Juliet has family in Australia.

You get to hear different views about many issues when you chat to them.

They seem to have some of the same problems as us.

Life’s not perfect over there either, you know.

But my family in Australia do not share these prejudices so, in their way, they are also "like us" or rather a large proportion of "us".

Living in an area whose whole economy relies to a huge extent on overseas students I don't think anything can be done (or should be done) about them. The local universities actively recruit overseas The most development in the town is building of student flats. We have shops which supply goods specifically for them. I doubt if the universities could survive without the huge amounts they charge those students. And our local economy would certainly suffer.

Just thinking about when those students could have started their courses.

I doubt it could gave been during the Covid years as Australia locked down pretty hard. It was difficult for Australians to go home! I would guess January (the start of the Australian academic year) 2022 would be the beginning of the return to a normal intake which would look like an uptick after 2020 (no deaths by March that year but they locked down before us) and 2021.

I think we need much more information before accepting and comparing this bias.

No, WWM I’m not in Australia but as Calendargirl says, I have family there. Both my son and daughter have been in Australia for over ten years and I’ve visited often so I do take an interest in their politics. I initially posted to show that other countries have certain problems too.

I think, like me, Juliet has family in Australia.

You get to hear different views about many issues when you chat to them.

They seem to have some of the same problems as us.

Life’s not perfect over there either, you know.

I'm concerned about the economy, how many people are working illegally and do not pay taxes but can still use public resources.

I think it's very easy to disappear into our economy and I suspect it may be a factor for some people to come here as we don't have ID cards. I'm not advocating for that by the way. I also don't blame anyone for coming here illegally, our system is wrong, but issues are worldwide not just the UK. Our media is UK focused so we don't hear about other countries much.

Due to climate change migration will continue to be an issue. Hopefully wars will stop for ever, but we should always help with genuine refugees. We always need migrants to fill gaps in our Labour Market as we don't invest in training.

Sorry Whitwave, I should have said I agree with you!

Whitewavemark2

I actually done see overseas students as a migrant issue, but in fact they add to the export figures imo - sale of education to overseas persons.

Are you in Australia Juliet27? This article seems to have very strong and particular bias. I'll see if I can find more about yourlifechoices.com.au and, perhaps other Australian points of view. They are sure to exist.

Education is part of the "Services" industry that, at least in Britain, and I would have thought in Aus, we should be looking to expand.

MaizieD

Coronation

Yes but how are students managed when their course ends? How many disappear and work cash for hand economy. How many of these education providers are genuine and not a front? How many students bring dependent families?

I get the feeling, Coronation, that you don't really want to know the answers to those questions because they might just conflict with your obvious belief that all foreigners are unwelcome in the UK and are not to be trusted in any way whatsoever...

Unless, of course, you are Australian, in which case I have jumped to the wrong conclusions and I apologise.

Further from yourlifechoices.com.au

‘It is international students who will be the target of the government’s migration recalibration over the next few years.

When it comes to migration, it’s not just size that matters
As part of that recalibration, the Albanese government will look at not just raw intake numbers, but also their composition. It will place a higher priority on high-skilled permanent migrants. The likeliest ‘victims’ of this change of tack will be those who arrive as international students but are primarily seeking temporary work.
The government will filter arrivals of this category through a number of measures, including:
raising the English language requirements for students
the introduction of closer scrutiny of applications from ‘high risk’ providers, and
a boost in funding to the Home Affairs Department’s student visa integrity unit.
These migration adjustments are ostensibly driven by a commitment to affordable housing and preventing visa misuse. But for the Albanese government, there may well be other motivations.’

Will be interesting to hear nanna8’s views

Coronation

Yes but how are students managed when their course ends? How many disappear and work cash for hand economy. How many of these education providers are genuine and not a front? How many students bring dependent families?

I get the feeling, Coronation, that you don't really want to know the answers to those questions because they might just conflict with your obvious belief that all foreigners are unwelcome in the UK and are not to be trusted in any way whatsoever...