Will the right win and get rid of our rights?

Yes, great post Cossy. I shall be voting strategically to hopefully bring about a Labour govt in the next election. I am not sure what we will get, but I do know what we will get if we return another Tory govt, and this woke voter doesn't want it.

Nice post, Cossy.

Though I would differ from you in my judgement of the government during covid.

I think the initial response of the public was stupendous but its confidence was eroded over the 2 peak years by government incompetence. The NHS was magnificent considering the way the government stacked the odds against it. I think we were very lucky that Kate Bingham directed the vaccine roll out, she could have been another Dido Harding...

Great post Cossy. I am in much the same place as you.

Good post Cossy. My background and politics are not dissimilar from yours.

Whitewavemark2

As an aside and talking about the right, I have been reading/listening to Trump lately😮😮😮😮 - if that lunatic gets in again, goodness knows what will happen both in the USA and the world. Europe needs to be strong to resist him I think.

Many are very worried Whitewave. It could lead to breakaway states. Republic of Gilead anyone?

I too actually despair at the term “leftie, woke” The meaning of “woke” (aside from the original, literal meaning” is
“ Woke is an adjective derived from African-American Vernacular English (AAVE) meaning "alert to racial prejudice and discrimination". Beginning in the 2010s, it came to encompass a broader awareness of social inequalities such as racial injustice, sexism, and denial of LGBT rights.” I’ve also heard it used as recognising and embracing social justice.

I fail to see, frankly, why it is a bad thing to be “woke” or a “leftie”

My political beliefs and persuasion have changed dramatically over the years and this is mainly due to changing careers from working within Financial Services in the City, to working locally and within the Welfare System in the Public Sector.

I was extremely fortunate to have been brought by two thoroughly decent, loyal, honest, hard working parents who were both proud middle class card carrying members of the Conservative Party. I don’t think all Tories are “scum” or “far right facists”, but have found myself far more in alignment with socialist views and beliefs, though I am centre left, rather than far left.

I’ve read Starmer’s pre-manifesto document and there’s nothing in it to back up “open doors to migrants” nor “sky high spending”, in fact that’s quite a laughable assertion given that spending and borrowing is at an all time high, as is immigration.

Something has to change and it’s time now to change our entire government rather than our leaders playing musical chairs. It’s my opinion that this govt has played us all for fools whilst lining their own and their friends pockets.

They’ve had some enormous challenges though, no one can deny that, as a country we did pull together well during Covid, Sunak’s financial furlough scheme saved many people and companies, though it was open to huge abuse, and his Eat Out to Help Out Scheme clearly helped spread Covid. Johnstone’s quick decision making re vaccine funding was tremendous, though the successful rollout (for which he takes full credit), was down to our amazing NHS and a raft of thousands of volunteers countrywide. The rest of Johnson’s reign was highly questionable, May’s was eminently forgettable other than her telling us “there’s no magic money tree” then giving the DUP several million ££££, and Truss was an unmitigated disaster.

How can Labour possibly be any worse?
Would they have been able to anything differently?

🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️

The extremes of both may well be "just as bad" as you put it nanna but we currently have the extreme right in power so it is not surprising if that is more talked about. We would only be able to judge a left-wing government by its deeds not our assumptions or the bias from the MSM.

If you look up 'Overton Window' you will find a way that is used to judge political viability. I would say, although others may be able to show (factually) reason to differ, that as a country Australia is a little further to the right of this while the UK has a population a little to the left of it and the US further to the right. I have often wondered if simple geography makes people more or less likely to want politics that mean working together.

At the moment the UK government is much further to the right. However, if a left-of-centre government moved towards full-blown statism, it would be perfectly reasonable to see them as extreme.

Indeed there are some on GN who support a great deal of stateism and therefore can be described as extreme when looking from the centre.

Currently, Starmer is not suggesting extreme policies (those counter to Overton) and I doubt he would in a first parliament- but the proof of the pudding will be in the eating and all governments need holding to (factual) account.

Why do you believe you know what my exprience is Annie; you obviously don't. No experience of WW2? Why do you think that? Who is left who fought that war Annie? Where you living in Germany before, during or after it? After a comment like that why should anyone see anything you say as anything other than "iĺl-founded" opinion?

Your assumption that I am on the "left" shows how little you know about your fellow Gnetters. Were we threatened by extreme Socialism I would be talking about that and expressing equal concern - but currently we are not.

I did not "smear" you Annie. I simply questioned just how informed your opinions are. Debate/argument relies on both, not on guesswork that suits an already formed bias.

As for my sources of information, I can only say they seem rather more rounded than yours. Are you ever able to use verified facts as the basis of your arguement? It seems not.

Fiction may suit those spreading extremist propaganda but some of us judge the "facts" by higher levels than how good the Suduko is that goes with it. Bread and Circuses apparently still work for many.

Oh, and I'm am not Scottish, although I would be proud to be a citizen of that beautiful country. I am British. Born in Hamburg, Germany.

I hope they can put forward a decent Democrat . If they do, Trump wouldn’t have a hope but if they stick with Biden I think ha has a good chance. What’s wrong with them, can’t they work that out?

Annie1 It works both ways. People on the right call people others who aren't of their political persuasion some childish names and make ridiculous assumptions too.

He will get in.

As an aside and talking about the right, I have been reading/listening to Trump lately😮😮😮😮 - if that lunatic gets in again, goodness knows what will happen both in the USA and the world. Europe needs to be strong to resist him I think.

I was thinking about this as regards the ‘right’ and it is my experience that those who identify as ‘left’ are just as bad, probably worse where rights are concerned. Thinking particularly of our extreme ‘left’ premier here who put in incredibly draconian rules over the Covid period. Locked us up for 2 years and even had helicopters out at night checking we weren’t going out and breaking curfew. I would bet my bottom dollar no conservative government would ever do that.

DAR, You really do not know what you are talking about. You obviously do not know what Fascism is. However, you never experienced WW2 but I did. I notice that those on the determined left call those who disagree with them all kinds of stupid names. It is like being in a junior school play ground. I read the DT, The Times, The Guardian, the Spectator. I love the Daily Mail Sudokus { 3 free every day] I see the headlines online but am dependent on online news as I am away from UK. I am a card carrying member of the Hampstead Conservative Party and get daily newsletters. So what do you read DAR? I expect the Guardian maybe the New Stateman and the Daily Mirror. I always think you are one of the Scots but maybe I am wrong. You smearing me only makes me smile. After all Sir Keir says he will arrange off shore asylum decisions and he finally recognised who is a woman so the only party left for you is the Socialist Workers Party who are going nowhere except to make a loud noise at demos.Good luck!

I think the assumption was based on the use of the term Woke leftie

Well, you know what they say about assumptions.

Wanting something and enabling it are two different things, icanhandthemback

Whilst we have lurched to more to the right more than most people would like, I think it is unlikely that the fascists will gain power in this country. Of course we must be careful but it strikes me that we have become similar to the USA in the 1950's with its fear of Communism for any thing that was slightly left wing except we fear fascism at the thought of Ruling from within.

I have heard people say woke leftie, and know what they mean, they sure don’t mean just a Labour supporter as most people I know are Labour supporters.😁

Oreo

varian

I'm a bit worried about you Anniel

Have you been reading The Daily Mail?

Surely not The Daily Express?

Oh not the old newspaper snobbery stuff yet again, just cos you disagree with a poster’s views.

I think the assumption was based on the use of the term Woke leftie - if ever there was a right wing media invented phrase that’s it. I have never heard an actual person say that. It’s the political equivalent of pert derrière used to describe a famous young woman photographed in beachwear. They must think we have the brain cells of gnats.

varian

I'm a bit worried about you Anniel

Have you been reading The Daily Mail?

Surely not The Daily Express?

Oh not the old newspaper snobbery stuff yet again, just cos you disagree with a poster’s views.

DaisyAnneReturns

Oh dear Annie. Do you know what happened the last time time fascists were given power?

Talking about Germany there? Or Italy? Not the UK at any rate.

Wanting something and enabling it are two different things, icanhandthemback

Not wanting a woke leftie (🙄) in power doesn't mean you want a fascist in power. There are middle of the road politicians too. Neither do you have to be a fascist to want to see a Bill of Rights instead of the ECHR.

Oh dear Annie. Do you know what happened the last time time fascists were given power?

I'm a bit worried about you Anniel

Have you been reading The Daily Mail?

Surely not The Daily Express?

I agree with you Yellow Fox, so we need a British Bill Of Rights. Our problem is that our politicians are scared of the Woke lefties who howl and scream whenever this issue is discussed. We have nobody of great presence and the calibre to lead our country. I challenge Grans to tell us who they think has the self belief, public presence and the wisdom to lead us. I know of columnists who I read every week and who I agree with but they never say who they would regard as a world class leader.

I disagree with you ruthiek. For all its shortcomings, UK citizens currently have more rights than many others. I'd like it to stay that way too, which is why I do not want the UK to abandon the ECHR.

Why do you think a Labour government would allow "unfettered" immigration or "sky high" borrowing?

What do you think the country needs?