Is it a crime to deface traffic signs?

Farzanah

Banksy drew attention to a very terrible situation, but it seems what really engages people is whether it is legal and how much it is worth. It was ever thus 🙁

Did he? The first few people who mentioned it didn’t a) know what it was about and b) know that Banksy had done it.
Then suddenly everyone knows it was a Banksy.
‘Twas ever thus.

Banksy drew attention to a very terrible situation, but it seems what really engages people is whether it is legal and how much it is worth. It was ever thus 🙁

For every Banksy there must be thousands of unsung, glorious graffiti artists having their art cleaned off walls, trains, bridges, etc., every day.

I didn't use the word graffiti but of course it's interesting that the highly desired current street art grew out of the grafitti movement.

Round my way, people with a spare end wall are falling over themselves to have a street art installation.
In most places, graffiti on house walls would be seen as permission for others who want to do it whether invited or not and whether talented or not.

"Or do you think it should all be welcomed by whoever and wherever -on your house, schools, bridges, walls"

Round my way, people with a spare end wall are falling over themselves to have a street art installation

"Hitler and book burning is notorious ..."

He also held in 1937 an exhibition of confiscated artworks that he considered "degenerate" featuring work by such artists as Dix, Grosz, Kirchner who are highly thought of today.

Even mainstream art as we now accept it has caused riots in the past.

Protest art is as old as humans have been on this earth.

A very famous example might be David by Michelangelo.
He sculpted this as a protest against the Medici family.

Other artists have commented on events etc like Picasso in Guernica, or Zinkeison “The Human Laundry” very very powerful comments on the human condition.

These comments ring down the ages and it is essential that they do.

That is why authoritarian leaders so often go after the creative arts, like the written word or artwork, because it challenges the powerful, and is a threat often to the status quo. Hitler and book burning is notorious - but even the suppression of protest art goes on today.

Long May it be so! It must never be suppressed, however uncomfortable we find it.

Louella12

I love Banksy's work

The thought of him having to apologise and vowing to give more thought in future has made me burst out laughing and upset the dogs

I’ve seen a lot of graffiti that looks amazing, but how do you decide which is legal and which isn’t?
Or do you think it should all be welcomed by whoever and wherever -on your house, schools, bridges, walls?

I love Banksy's work

The thought of him having to apologise and vowing to give more thought in future has made me burst out laughing and upset the dogs

Rosie51

^Southwark council has since replaced the road sign to avoid endangering road users.^ quote from the Guardian newspaper. This suggests the road sign is a safety issue. Banksy felt enabled to deface and partly obscure this sign, but his popularity is excusing his actions. I like Banksy's art, but defacing safety traffic road signs is just not on. He should apologise for his misjudgement and vow to give more thought to it next time. There was nothing stopping him from painting a stop sign with the same 'enhancement' on a wall somewhere without risking distracting drivers and potentially causing an accident.

The council replaced the road sign as it had been stolen. Whether they would have replaced it had it not been stolen is unknown.

Southwark council has since replaced the road sign to avoid endangering road users. quote from the Guardian newspaper. This suggests the road sign is a safety issue. Banksy felt enabled to deface and partly obscure this sign, but his popularity is excusing his actions. I like Banksy's art, but defacing safety traffic road signs is just not on. He should apologise for his misjudgement and vow to give more thought to it next time. There was nothing stopping him from painting a stop sign with the same 'enhancement' on a wall somewhere without risking distracting drivers and potentially causing an accident.

Defacing street signs is dangerous because it distracts the motorist's attention and is rightly illegal.
Banksy is a vandal when he defaces public property and why people rate his art so highly I have no idea.
But that is my opinion.

While it is a criminal offence, it is difficult to prove a case as the courts would require substantial and clear evidence before an effective prosecution can be brought.
So presumably, since Banksy has claimed authorship, an effective prosecution can be brought.
Except that he’s famous.
Let the thieves be aware that for their crime to be excused, they should be famous.

Before.

Did he confirm it before or after it was pinched?

Namsnanny

How did the thief know it was a banksy?🤣

He confirmed it was his work on his social media.

I feel profoundly uncomfortable with the idea that art can only be expressed in approved ways in approved places. Feels counter to the spirit of human expression which art... is.

But that is just a personal belief.

Quite sure Banksy will not be deterred from their work by a little bit of legal hassle, in any case.

How did the thief know it was a banksy?🤣

OldFrill

You keep saying 'deface' he hasn't defaced it, he's enhanced it, therefore he has, in my opinion, not committed a crime
Your elitism argument is irrelevant, if he has enhanced and not defaced the sign, as he hasn't broken the law.

No, it’s defaced.Just cos Banksy street art is valuable when sold doesn’t mean he isn’t defacing a real Stop sign, if it really is a real Stop sign.
You or I may be able to paint well and use street furniture to make our own political points but they would have to be cleaned or replaced by the council. It’s still called defacing!

What would be the difference between the penalty for stealing a random stop sign and stealing this particular one?

Banksy himself would not agree to this man going to prison I don't think and certainly won't be in court. Also didn't Banksy say art should be free?

So should this man be punished for stealing artwork worth 500,000 or should he be punished for stealing a vandalised stop sign?

It's such a bizarre situation...

I don't object to Banksy's art at all, I enjoyed the work of his I saw at Cromer sea wall. I do object to him potentially compromising safety by placing his art on a traffic sign. If he's allowed to do that what's to stop anybody else deciding they too will decorate traffic signs?
When we discovered our government thought they were special enough to not keep the Covid rules that applied to the rest of us we were justifiably angered. I'm still angry that teenagers having a snowball fight on a common were fined larger amounts than government ministers who held indoor parties.

I think this is a n interesting topic, which has far more nuances than at first glance.

I admire Banksy's work, and I don't think I'm aware of any with which I disagree politically, but that has to be balanced with the fact that the law has to be for everyone (despite the example set by the current government). Rule by consent is seriously compromised if laws are applied to some and not others.

Also, as was said upthread, I know I would feel differently if racists, homophobes or incels expressed their beliefs in art and inflicted them on the public, however talented they may be. Talent is not a free pass to be above the law.

Plus, what some find beautiful others find hideous, and there is the question of ownership of space. I might not mind if someone like Banksy painted on the side of my house, but I wouldn't be happy with crowds there all day taking photos, and nor would I be pleased if teenagers sprayed tags there. It's so subjective.

One of life's misteries 🤔

Why are there never any photos/videos of the elusive Banksy actually painting/drawing his artworks, plenty of this sign being stolen?

Glorianny

The purpose of art is not just to produce an acceptable image, or object, that some people find aesthetically pleasing, it is also to challenge ideas and norms. Banksy does that, so do other graffiti artists. The whole concept of the question is wrong. It should not just be is it a crime? but also is a crime sometimes justifiable?.
In the case of street art it undoubtedly is.
And councils could be erasing works potentially worth thousands from streets. The absurdity of the monetary value placed on works is recognised by Banksy whose work sold for over £1million and then shredded itself.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyQMJ-RmYcQ
One of the purposes of his art is to make you think. It works.

For info - The (half) shredded work later sold for over $25million.