Is escalating the conflict by bombing the Houthis the way to go?

I think it’s better to close the Suez Canal a therefore remove the problem until the Gaza War is resolved, it’s not going to collapse world trade we just pay a little more for everything. It would affect Egypt they could be compensated.

Although we were justified in attacking the Houthis for targeting a US ship, we don’t want to start a war in the Gulf as well as Ukraine and Gaza

Glorianny I have no idea what you know or how you know it!

I know due to two eloquent and well educated ladies who refuse to call themselves Iranian, they prefer Persian. Describing their lives before and after the change to radical Islam in their country of birth and how they managed to flee with the blessings of their family.

GrannyGravy13

Oh I am more than capable of understanding different cultures, my friendship group includes Muslims (some stricter than others), Jews, Hindus, catholics, C of E along with atheists.

Speaking with people and travelling the world broadens one’s horizons and opens one’s mind far more than reading other’s opinions and then cutting and pasting on GN…

I see because I actually read and learn and use the internet I can't possibly be widely travelled or have any friends? And I'm the one with the closed mind????!!!
How do you imagine I know how the Women's Revolutionary Guard behaved in Iran?

Oh I am more than capable of understanding different cultures, my friendship group includes Muslims (some stricter than others), Jews, Hindus, catholics, C of E along with atheists.

Speaking with people and travelling the world broadens one’s horizons and opens one’s mind far more than reading other’s opinions and then cutting and pasting on GN…

Oh dear - I give up Gloryannie - you’re so fixed in the way you look at any subject. Your view on any subject can be anticipated , driven by your narrow approach. I’ll leave it.

Iam64

Where’s your analysis of what led the Women’s Revolutionary Guard to be ‘far more brutal’ than the men. I read your excuses to explain the horrors perpetrated by Hamas and wonder how that sits with your criticism of the small number of abusive women

They are women who believe in a certain type of Islam. It's a mistake to think that all women think the same. I used to think that head covering was imposed by men until I met two women who performed as "The Hijab Sisters" they made it very clear that wearing the hijab was their choice and no one, man or woman, had the right to stop them.
Our thinking is always the result of the culture we are raised in. To look at things objectively you have to recognise that and accept differing cultures.

merlotgran

Yes, I know that, Gloryanny but I took MaizieD’s* post to mean close the route indefinitely.

Of course I didn't mean indefinitely. I was just thinking of removing the 'targets' for a while. It wasn't really a totally serious suggestion. But armed retaliation isn't a great solution, either.

'World trade' will, I'm sure, adapt to new circumstances. It usually does.

Where’s your analysis of what led the Women’s Revolutionary Guard to be ‘far more brutal’ than the men. I read your excuses to explain the horrors perpetrated by Hamas and wonder how that sits with your criticism of the small number of abusive women

merlotgran

MaizieD

I can't help thinking that if the freight shipping lines just didn't use Suez and the Red Sea the houthis wouldn't have any shipping to prey on.

Pull the rug out from underneath their feet...

I know it would be costly, but if the countries willing to spend £billions on weaponry spent it instead on subsidising the extra fuel costs 'world trade' would adjust to the longer waiting times and carry on as before...

I don't think military action is going to do anything but inflame the situation.

That would mean the western economy capitulating to a terrorists group.

How can it pull the rug out from under their feet when they’ll just implement more terror by other means.

Then what?

Is it capitulation or taking away a weapon?

Terror by some other means. What do you have in mind?

Iam64

I find it fascinating that you always refer to women who ‘sometimes’ treat other women badly. Of course there are. That doesn’t diminish the reality of life in Iran for the vast majority of women - they’re oppressed, abused and exploited

I only do that when people post about men imposing their views. At the time of the revolution the Women's Revolutionary Guard were far more brutal than the men to women who didn't cover them selves properly.
By all means criticise but do so accurately.

I find it fascinating that you always refer to women who ‘sometimes’ treat other women badly. Of course there are. That doesn’t diminish the reality of life in Iran for the vast majority of women - they’re oppressed, abused and exploited

SueBdoo70

I would really like to thank Gloryanny for her rational and well researched contributions to this very difficult subject. Yes, both sides have committed terrible atrocities, both sides vow to kill every last Jew or every last Palestinian. But I think when we hear the word ‘ terrorist ‘ spat out in the media, we automatically assume that they are the ‘ problem ‘. Since October 6th I have read up on the history of Palestine and have been shocked by our own country’s complicity in forcibly removing Palestinians from their lands which they had lived in for centuries. Not only losing their homes, livelihoods, family networks, culture as well as their lives very often. I will now always question the term ‘ terrorist ‘ in future, because there in will lie much wrong doing and oppression. My reason for posting however, is to urge everyone to read Rabbi Haim Soper’s view as supplied by Glorianny further up thread. In it he answers everyone’s questions as to how the crisis can be resolved.

Thanks SueBdoo70
I think that's such an interesting piece. He's obviously very well informed.

Anniel

Glorianny,

I suggest you look up the number of women in prison in Iran because they have been caught not wearing a hijab. Ask the woman from WestHampstead improsoned for years for being suspected of spying or other spurious excuse.Go and put your “facts” somewhere some will agree with you. Maybe Comrade Corbyn agrees with you. I do wish you would not be so one eyed.

I really don't know what you are trying say. I only post things about Iran when there are obvious misconceptions posted. One of these is that only men are the people imposing restrictions when actually there are women in Iran who are just as strict about standards and sometimes treat women in a far worse way.
I think it is interesting that the country has a high level of women training as doctors, because their interpretation of Islam says a male doctor cannot treat a woman without her husband being present.
I'm also interested in the fact that just as the country was beginning to open up to tourism it was once again subjected to a huge clamp down.
I think its fascinating that Iran is always chastised as a funder of terrorism whereas Saudi Arabia which funds just as much ( ISIS and 9/11) is regarded as a friendly country.

This awful situation is imo, too complex for the classic, simplistic approach taken by Gloryannie and others - Israel totally utterly and in every way BAD , anyone who doesn’t share that view is equally BAD.

It’s been said before but when Jews are being persecuted, everyone feels sorry for them, when Israel is being attacked from all sides (as in the six day war) everyone supports them but when Israel fight back with force, everyone hates them!

Glorianny

merlotgran

MaizieD

I can't help thinking that if the freight shipping lines just didn't use Suez and the Red Sea the houthis wouldn't have any shipping to prey on.

Pull the rug out from underneath their feet...

I know it would be costly, but if the countries willing to spend £billions on weaponry spent it instead on subsidising the extra fuel costs 'world trade' would adjust to the longer waiting times and carry on as before...

I don't think military action is going to do anything but inflame the situation.

That would mean the western economy capitulating to a terrorists group.

How can it pull the rug out from under their feet when they’ll just implement more terror by other means.

Then what?

Shipping companies are already not using the Red Sea route
^Hapag Lloyd, CMA CGM and Maersk have all ceased sailing through the Red Sea and the Suez Canal, opting for the far longer Cape of Good Hope route - to reach the west.‌ This adds up to two weeks to some journey times and considerable extra costs of around $1.25 million per sailing, depending on the destination. All of which is expected to be passed on to the end consumer^

Of course they're not!

The Houthis are just opportunists, they do not really care about the Palestinian people or what is happening in Gaza.

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny I am both appalled and dismayed by your defence of Hamas whilst systematically attacking Israel at every opportunity.

Did you see the Palestinian Protesters in London at the weekend?

Their new chant is Yemen Yemen make us proud, turn another ship around they are pro Houthi piracy…

Apologies for simply repeating your post GrannyGravy. I’ve caught up with comments though and find this one of yours reflects my views

This awful situation is imo, too complex for the classic, simplistic approach taken by Gloryannie and others - Israel totally utterly and in every way BAD , anyone who doesn’t share that view is equally BAD.

both sides vow to kill every last Jew or every last Palestinian

When did Israel ever say they wanted to kill every last Palestinian?

Of course, many seem to desire the eradication of every last Jew though.

In Palestine, text books for children, young children are filled with this hatred of Israel and the Jews. They learn this from a very early age.

That doesn't happen in Israeli schools

Well said

I would really like to thank Gloryanny for her rational and well researched contributions to this very difficult subject. Yes, both sides have committed terrible atrocities, both sides vow to kill every last Jew or every last Palestinian. But I think when we hear the word ‘ terrorist ‘ spat out in the media, we automatically assume that they are the ‘ problem ‘. Since October 6th I have read up on the history of Palestine and have been shocked by our own country’s complicity in forcibly removing Palestinians from their lands which they had lived in for centuries. Not only losing their homes, livelihoods, family networks, culture as well as their lives very often. I will now always question the term ‘ terrorist ‘ in future, because there in will lie much wrong doing and oppression. My reason for posting however, is to urge everyone to read Rabbi Haim Soper’s view as supplied by Glorianny further up thread. In it he answers everyone’s questions as to how the crisis can be resolved.

Just to add to my previous post, if I may. In answer to Whitewavemark2s OP no, it’s never the answer to bomb and escalate. Diplomacy is the only way forward and the only way to end these disputes. You are absolutely right. You can pulverise people into submission but you can’t get rid of an idea, or a terrible wrong. That’s why Netanyahu is so determined in his destruction of Gaza. It’s rage and hurt that is fuelling this.

Glorianny,

I suggest you look up the number of women in prison in Iran because they have been caught not wearing a hijab. Ask the woman from WestHampstead improsoned for years for being suspected of spying or other spurious excuse.Go and put your “facts” somewhere some will agree with you. Maybe Comrade Corbyn agrees with you. I do wish you would not be so one eyed.

Yes, I know that, Gloryanny but I took MaizieD’s* post to mean close the route indefinitely.

merlotgran

MaizieD

I can't help thinking that if the freight shipping lines just didn't use Suez and the Red Sea the houthis wouldn't have any shipping to prey on.

Pull the rug out from underneath their feet...

I know it would be costly, but if the countries willing to spend £billions on weaponry spent it instead on subsidising the extra fuel costs 'world trade' would adjust to the longer waiting times and carry on as before...

I don't think military action is going to do anything but inflame the situation.

That would mean the western economy capitulating to a terrorists group.

How can it pull the rug out from under their feet when they’ll just implement more terror by other means.

Then what?

Shipping companies are already not using the Red Sea route
Hapag Lloyd, CMA CGM and Maersk have all ceased sailing through the Red Sea and the Suez Canal, opting for the far longer Cape of Good Hope route - to reach the west.‌ This adds up to two weeks to some journey times and considerable extra costs of around $1.25 million per sailing, depending on the destination. All of which is expected to be passed on to the end consumer

Oreo

Cossy
I’m just saddened by the outcome!

It’s funny how we choose to attack and why, always seems to involve trade and/oil!

What about the poor Afghanistan’s we left to rot with the Taliban and Ukraine with Russia and as for the poor Palestinians? Plus everyone else we “choose” to ignore?

I don’t side with or support terrorist, but surely enough is enough.

I know it’s impossible to negotiate with terrorists and I know I’m being simplistic and naive but I simply don’t believe Wars solve anything really!
A couple of things here Cossy, we had no choice but to leave Afghanistan once the US under President Trump had agreed to pull out.Am not sure that we should have been there for so long anyway.
As to Ukraine, we haven’t pulled support for them in their fight back against Russia, in fact support has just been stepped up.
As to poor Palestinians, it’s not up to us and we have no say in what happens.
Wars often do solve something, but a few do not I agree.

Oreo

I understand the “why” and “what” of both Afganistan and Ukraine, but I’ll never forget the heartbreaking photos of the last plane taking off from Afganistan and we left people behind who worked directly for us despite promising them we’d look after them and their families. As for Ukraine, we are supporting them with money and weapons, but what they need is armed services support. In terms of Palestine, it is something to do with us, way way back we helped cause this situation. Israel, despite having Jews who appear to have been persecuted for centuries, have gone way “beyond” what they initially called self defence and rescue of hostages. I feel so sorry for those innocent citizens on both sides of this conflict.

I have no sympathy or support for terrorism, though was it Nelson Mandela who stated, “one man’s freedom fighter is another man’s terrorist”

To me it’s all a wicked waste of lives.

Sadly this world is so unequal, so polarised, so stupid and unforgiving I despair. It’s 2024 and we are still bombing, killing and maiming. Shame on us all.