Is escalating the conflict by bombing the Houthis the way to go?

Iam64

Whitewave -thanks for the post ‘no Islamic country will want to be seen to criticise the Houthis in their support of Gaza’.

We are in dangerous territory when the events leading to and following 7 October are seen simply as one side right, the other side wrong.

The polarisation between Muslim and Jewish people is dangerous to all of us.

Yes you are right, but I think it goes further than that. There is a new global alignment taking place with the western influence diminishing.

The world is no longer accepting the West’s ideological dominance without critical thought, and the ideological power of China and Russia are gaining influence.

This is not good news for the superpowers in the west who will not automatically be given support in their actions.

There has been little enthusiasm for Ukrainian support from the African continent for example as well as large parts of the globe.

This is one of the biggest mistake made by the Tories in cutting overseas aid. It is a huge influence and prime example of soft power and relinquishing it has consequences as so many tried to warn the government.

I’ve mostly ignored this thread, but reading this comment . . .
People say a lot of things GG13. It doesn't mean they will happen or they are even a possibility.
Glorianny, you are accusing Hamas and their supporters of lying about their own actions- current or the future.
What makes you believe they are lying?
(You don’t have to answer)

There’s a good article in the Guardian today by Ami Ayolon, retired Admiral suggesting Israel needs to negotiate with Barghouti, a jailed Intifada leader. Israel will not have security until Palestine has its own state.
Worth a read.

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny your posts are full of the wrong doings of Israel, you seem to ignore the fact that Hamas and their supporters have been interviewed on various Middle East tv channels and repeatedly state they will continue attacking Jews around the world until they are wiped off of the planet

Please let us know how it is possible to have peace talks with a group whose sole aim is to destroy every Jew?

People say a lot of things GG13. It doesn't mean they will happen or they are even a possibility.

Israel has been at fault in the area for so long. There are so many UN resolutions they have ignored.
The Palestinian people are not Hamas. Hamas is a terrorist group as has been said many times. How do terrorists recruit? They use people who have been treated unequally and tell them they will restore their rights. If Israel really wanted peace they would have agreed a two state solution, surrendered at least some of the land they took by force and enabled ordinary Palestinian people to develop a successful state.
Peace isn't just a question of talks, it requires action.

As far as talks go though I wonder why Israel wasn't prepared to discuss which of the hostages should be released and walked away when Hamas wanted to discuss older people and not women. Older people would find the circumstances in Gaza, no food, no water, so much more difficult. It's almost as if Israel didn't want them back.

Glorianny your posts are full of the wrong doings of Israel, you seem to ignore the fact that Hamas and their supporters have been interviewed on various Middle East tv channels and repeatedly state they will continue attacking Jews around the world until they are wiped off of the planet

Please let us know how it is possible to have peace talks with a group whose sole aim is to destroy every Jew?

maddyone

M0nica

Not just Jews, murdered, also gay people, the disabled, political opponents Roma, over 1 million non-Jewish Poles and over 3 million Soviet prisoners of war.

It is estimate that the Nazis murdered around 12 million people in all.

Quite!
And yet we are told by some that the only way to solve a conflict is negotiation! How ridiculous! I believe Neville Chamberlain tried that! Peace in our time. That went well didn’t it!
WW2 absolutely had to be fought. My father and many of yours knew that and fought in that war. Otherwise we would have left the whole of Europe under the foot of the Nazis and likely been invaded ourselves. Sometimes wars have to be fought. And some have claimed many Germans didn’t support the Nazis. Untrue. Some Germans didn’t support the Nazis, but most did, they joined the Party, the sure way to success, they enjoyed the fruits of the stolen food, the stolen wealth, the slave labourers on their farms and in their houses. The Germans didn’t go without until the last year of the war, unlike ration book Britain. The point is the war had to be fought. Now the Israelis need to disable Hamas and make Israel safe. Their war has to be fought and very sadly people die in wars. The innocent die in wars. That’s why wat is so horrible, so horrific and so disliked by us all. Not one of us on here wants to see innocents suffer. Not Palestians, not Israelis, not Yemenis.
But sometimes wars have to fought because there simply is no other way.
Pontificating from your armchair in Britain will do nothing. Neither will marches or demonstrations. It’s absolutely horrible and vile but it will end when it ends. There is nothing you can do except pray if you believe in God, or hope if you don’t.

But if we are making comparisons with WW2 I have to point out that we did not completely destroy Germany, then close all access to it, so that its people could not leave and water and electricity were restricted. Had we done so the consequences might have been very different. This isn't the first time Israel has destroyed Gaza. In 2012 an Israeli minister said they would "bomb Gaza back into the Middle Ages"
With that sort of ideology there is little hope of a peace.
The right of a country to rebuild, trade, be open to international travel is an essential element. We knew that. Israel doesn't.

maddyone I am another who completely agrees with you. Like you my father (and his six brothers and his father) served in the last war.

What people forget is that not fighting often kills as many people as fighting, some the same, some different. We have had peace initiativeafter peace initiative in the Middle East since the formation of Israel in 1947 and none have worked, all have left to a slow steady attrition of deaths.

The Houthis are a glove puppet for Iran. Everyone knows that they are funded and run by Iran and do as Iran dictates.

The attacks in the Red Sea are on ships and people that have no connection with the conflict between the israels and Palestinians and are unarmed vessels in international waters.

As for which countries in the Middle East support the bombing of the Houthis. there are many middle eastern countries with a real fear of Iran, who may not admit to any support for the bombings, but are very glad to see them happening.

Whitewave -thanks for the post ‘no Islamic country will want to be seen to criticise the Houthis in their support of Gaza’.

We are in dangerous territory when the events leading to and following 7 October are seen simply as one side right, the other side wrong.

The polarisation between Muslim and Jewish people is dangerous to all of us.

I have been reading that

One of the big issues facing the USA and U.K. is the fact that no Middle Eastern country with the obvious exception of Bahrain have come out in support of the air strikes.

The reason being is that the Houthis have so successfully aligned themselves with the Palestinian cause -to such an extent that they are now receiving funds from a wide spread of sources. In fact the Houthis star is rising thanks to the support of the Palestinians and now the air strikes, when only recently it was on the wan.

No Islamic country will want to be seen to criticise the Houthis in their support of Gaza, which is a problem for the USA.

they have already slaughtered thousands of Palestinians and been sniping at them for years

Have you forgotten that the Palestinians fire many rockets into Israel on a daily basis and continue to do so even now during this war? Or that they launch regular terrorist attacks including one recently in Jerusalem where several people were killed? Or that many Palestinians are awaiting trial in Israel for terrorist offences?

Well said, maddyone

I despair at times, I really do

M0nica

Not just Jews, murdered, also gay people, the disabled, political opponents Roma, over 1 million non-Jewish Poles and over 3 million Soviet prisoners of war.

It is estimate that the Nazis murdered around 12 million people in all.

Quite!
And yet we are told by some that the only way to solve a conflict is negotiation! How ridiculous! I believe Neville Chamberlain tried that! Peace in our time. That went well didn’t it!
WW2 absolutely had to be fought. My father and many of yours knew that and fought in that war. Otherwise we would have left the whole of Europe under the foot of the Nazis and likely been invaded ourselves. Sometimes wars have to be fought. And some have claimed many Germans didn’t support the Nazis. Untrue. Some Germans didn’t support the Nazis, but most did, they joined the Party, the sure way to success, they enjoyed the fruits of the stolen food, the stolen wealth, the slave labourers on their farms and in their houses. The Germans didn’t go without until the last year of the war, unlike ration book Britain. The point is the war had to be fought. Now the Israelis need to disable Hamas and make Israel safe. Their war has to be fought and very sadly people die in wars. The innocent die in wars. That’s why wat is so horrible, so horrific and so disliked by us all. Not one of us on here wants to see innocents suffer. Not Palestians, not Israelis, not Yemenis.
But sometimes wars have to fought because there simply is no other way.
Pontificating from your armchair in Britain will do nothing. Neither will marches or demonstrations. It’s absolutely horrible and vile but it will end when it ends. There is nothing you can do except pray if you believe in God, or hope if you don’t.

Glorianny with the backdrop of WW2, there must be a sense of heightened awareness that never again will the Jewish people be treated in this way. The history of the Jewish people must give a real impetus to fight their sworn enemies and make no mistake, Hamas has declared their intentions in the most pronounced way.

Not just Jews, murdered, also gay people, the disabled, political opponents Roma, over 1 million non-Jewish Poles and over 3 million Soviet prisoners of war.

It is estimate that the Nazis murdered around 12 million people in all.

Callistemon21

Louella12

ronib

Louella12 WW2 wasn’t too great either. 6 million Jews died?

Exactly.

Were murdered.

I wonder why this is relevant in this instance? The Palestinians did not murder the Jews, Germans did. Muslims contributed a significant amount to the allied victory in WW2. Over 5 million fought on the allied side and over 1.5 million Muslims were killed. Palestinians fought with the allies in Egypt and Mesopotamia
Churchill said
“We must not on any account break with the Moslems, who represent a hundred million people, and the main army elements on which we must rely for the immediate fighting”
Who knows without their help the war might have been much longer

Louella12

ronib

Louella12 WW2 wasn’t too great either. 6 million Jews died?

Exactly.

Were murdered.

ronib

Louella12 WW2 wasn’t too great either. 6 million Jews died?

Exactly.

Have you looked at the resolution of previous wars involving Israel I wonder?

GSM There are none so blind as those who will not see.

And are frit because they do not have a solution, hence all the irrelevant answers.

Farzanah there are 6.3 million Jewish people living in the USA - the second largest Jewish community after Israel.
How likely is it that the USA will be able to drop Israel when it wants?

I think “the obvious” is that in the end the USA holds the power, and when they think it’s time for Israel to cease they will withdraw support.

It’s painfully obvious MOnica. I don’t understand why some are unable to accept the obvious, but keep bleating about diplomacy. Do they not understand that an agreement, whatever it is, requires agreement by all parties? A simple enough concept I would have thought.

Gloranny. Get off the particular, I said I wasn''t talking about that and get to the general principle. How do you get a diplomatic result from ANY conflict if one side will not negotiate. I have been asking *whitewavemark2 the same question. How can any conflict be solved by diplomacy if one party will not take part?

It seems to me that this war will end when USA decides that the trade offs, political risks, and the human costs become too great, and then they will intervene.
This is what has happened in the past, and therefore is the best predictor of future events.
I just hope this happens soon, because when I see the faces of the injured children I imagine this could be my grandchildren in another life.

Louella12 WW2 wasn’t too great either. 6 million Jews died?