Is escalating the conflict by bombing the Houthis the way to go?

Louella12

If you look at what happened to Jews post WW2, you might have a bit more understanding.

They were forced out of countries where they'd lived peacefully for generations .

It's not easy being Jewish

Does being forced out of countries where you have lived peacefully give you the right force others out of theirs?

If you look at what happened to Jews post WW2, you might have a bit more understanding.

They were forced out of countries where they'd lived peacefully for generations .

It's not easy being Jewish

Is escalating the conflict by bombing the Houthis the way to go?

Is launching attacks on worldwide merchant shipping in international waters the way to go?

M0nica

Goranny Once again this avoids the question, which is the more general one. If you think, in any conflict the only way out is diplomacy not fighting, which is what many are saying on this thread, what do you do if one side refuses to take part in any negotiations and wants to keep fighting

For example, in the case you quote if either the Israelis refuse to stop bombing or they do and Hamas continue to attack Israel. I am trying to be even handed and neutral and say, to quote Romeo and Juliet ' a curse on both your houses'

Firstly there are not two sides involved here. There is one country massively oppressing another and blaming the whole population for the actions of a few people.

But yes what do you do when one side refuses to budge,uses force to take territory, removes people from their homes and then makes them second class citizens? Apparently nothing, because that side is backed by one of the world's super powers and supplied liberally with arms. You just let them slaughter people I suppose.

Hamas is not the people of Gaza. It will continue even after they are slaughtered. Israel knows that.

I feel that mankind hasn't come much further than the Stone Age when fighting and killing seems to be the only way to resolve issues. When will we ever learn that killing only causes more killing and heartache for those left behind.

Goranny Once again this avoids the question, which is the more general one. If you think, in any conflict the only way out is diplomacy not fighting, which is what many are saying on this thread, what do you do if one side refuses to take part in any negotiations and wants to keep fighting

For example, in the case you quote if either the Israelis refuse to stop bombing or they do and Hamas continue to attack Israel. I am trying to be even handed and neutral and say, to quote Romeo and Juliet ' a curse on both your houses'

I know AGAA4 it’s a terrible situation all round, but hamas have set in motion something unstoppable by what they did.
Even if it breeds more terrorists, these present ones have to be dealt with, likewise the houthis.

I'm not condoning what Hamas have done nor am I condoning the mass killing of Palestinians.
Unfortunately oppression breeds freedom fighters/terrorists and the result is carnage.

What does need to happen is for more food aid and medical aid to get into Gaza and that’s not all the fault of the Israeli government, there are delays on the Egyptian side too.

They are surrounded by enemies AGA and look what the governing body in Gaza just did to over a thousand people in Israel on 7/10 murdering raping and mutilating, burning alive.
They will now do what they have to in decimating hamas to prevent anything like that happening again.

Oreo

I said ‘very few’ Maybe70 that means very few adults, tho some now could be turning against hamas as well as hating Israel.
From the massed crowds in Yemen, another Israel hating country I expect it’s much the same.

Israel is so innocent according to some. They have already slaughtered thousands of Palestinians and have been sniping at them for years and taking their land.

I said ‘very few’ Maybe70 that means very few adults, tho some now could be turning against hamas as well as hating Israel.
From the massed crowds in Yemen, another Israel hating country I expect it’s much the same.

Yeah, it would be very convenient for hamas to say that!
Hamas knew before the hostages were brought back where they would be held and they knew that the IDF would soon arrive in force.
Oh those poor hamas guys, they would love to give back the hostages if only they knew where some of them were!

Oreo

There are very few innocents in Yemen or Gaza other than children.
The first thing that should happen in Gaza is that all the Israeli hostages be freed.
I am very sure who the bad guys are, hamas and the houthis, it’s a no brainer.

So you think that every adult in Gaza supports Hamas? Every single one of them.

Oreo

There are very few innocents in Yemen or Gaza other than children.
The first thing that should happen in Gaza is that all the Israeli hostages be freed.
I am very sure who the bad guys are, hamas and the houthis, it’s a no brainer.

I doubt if anyone is exactly sure where all the hostages are, if they haven't already been killed in the bombing. Israel made the mistake of assuming that they would all be held in one place,, when actually they had been dispersed. Some were held in private homes. The destruction is such they may now lie with the Palestinian dead under the rubble.

ronib

Glorianny what in your opinion should Israel have done differently to retrieve their hostages?

They should have agreed to a change of priorities. Hamas regarded some of the women as active participants and wanted to discuss the release of older people.Israel refused and walked away.

Lebanon and Iran won’t join in whitewavemark2 neither will Russia or China.
Lebanon is an economically exhausted country.Iran enjoys playing behind the scenes and bankrolling terrorist groups to hit the West but won’t want an all out war.Russia has enough problems at home and with the war in Ukraine and China only looks out for itself and won’t damage its trade.

There are very few innocents in Yemen or Gaza other than children.
The first thing that should happen in Gaza is that all the Israeli hostages be freed.
I am very sure who the bad guys are, hamas and the houthis, it’s a no brainer.

AGAA4

We do like our "goodies" and "baddies" when in fact the lines are very blurred and the only innocents are those being slaughtered.

Yes.

monica

In my view, the only way forward is a complete ceasefire, and a two state solution accepted by Israel.

Hamas are not the only players in the game and I have no doubt that the PNA would be willing to take part in the ceasefire and subsequent two state talks. Hamas I am convinced would loose its grip once the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip could see the greater prize of peace, complete sovereignty - not the Israeli occupied state they have been living under- and prosperity.

Israel must give up its expansionism, and leave all the illegal settler land.

The PNA could the persuade the Houthis to cease their “support” of Gaza by firing at shipping in the Red Sea with connections to Israel.

No one says that this will be easy, but my goodness it must be so much easier than the alternative, which risks not only Lebanon and Iran joining in but also Russia and possibly China .

Glorianny what in your opinion should Israel have done differently to retrieve their hostages?

ronib

First of all we have moved beyond absolving and we want all this bloodshed to stop.
Would you not consider that Hamas, Hezbelloh, Houthis have a firm grip on their own individual countries? Probably encouraged to some extent by other Middle Eastern countries. When Hamas deliberately attacked Israel, it was a deliberate long term strategy to start war. You can claim that it was a justified attack but as we can see now, it’s spreading out to other countries and even more people will die. It feels like a whirlpool of terror and destruction that is going faster and faster with no end in sight.

No if you look at the history of Gaza and the other Palestinian territories which should be a united entity for Palestinans there has been repeated internal conflict.
Hezbollah control the Lebanon after a sustained period of civil war and an Israeli invasion.
The Houthis control a large area of Yemen.
Hamas may have realised war would result. I would imagine just as there are people in many countries who care little for civilian casualties Hamas has similar ideas.
The decision to bomb, invade and ignore the fate of the hostages is entirely Israeli.

Freshair

Glorianny..the people of those countries voted for terrorists and still support what they do.

What! The people of Gaza last voted in 2006
Most of the population wouldn't have been eligible to vote then.
In 2017 Hamas actually agreed to support a two state solution
In A Document of General Principles and Policies issued in 2017, the organization acknowledged “the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled” as a “formula of national consensus.”
Let's not forget Israel has consistently refused to comply with a UN resolution instructing them to return to the Palestinians land they took by force.
This really isn't one sided conflict. And the people who are being killed are not the people who decided anything. They are simply the victims.

AGAA4

We do like our "goodies" and "baddies" when in fact the lines are very blurred and the only innocents are those being slaughtered.

I was just thinking that.

First of all we have moved beyond absolving and we want all this bloodshed to stop.
Would you not consider that Hamas, Hezbelloh, Houthis have a firm grip on their own individual countries? Probably encouraged to some extent by other Middle Eastern countries. When Hamas deliberately attacked Israel, it was a deliberate long term strategy to start war. You can claim that it was a justified attack but as we can see now, it’s spreading out to other countries and even more people will die. It feels like a whirlpool of terror and destruction that is going faster and faster with no end in sight.

ronib

Glorianny seems to me on a dozy afternoon that the UN needs to headed up by countries not involved in the wars. There’s a lot of mistrust and it’s not helping to find solutions.
Have you forgotten that there are innocent Israelis too?

There are innocents in all the countries with unclean hands rnib that doesn't absolve the country. None of those countries are suffering the death and destruction they have imposed on Gaza and Yemen.