Is escalating the conflict by bombing the Houthis the way to go?

Katie59

Glorianny

dismemberment of children and the vulnerable as an official military tactic
I shall assume this was posted in haste and in ignorance. Otherwise it is so distasteful.
There are currently over 1000 child amputees as the result of Israeli bombing. Many will have further amputations because of the lack of medical treatment
www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gazas-child-amputees-face-further-risks-without-expert-care-2024-01-04/

You are way out of line in your thinking Glorianny, extreme Islamist groups like ISIS, Boko Haram and Hamas do use kidnap, rape and murder as weapons to further their aims and that is exactly what they are doing in Gaza.
They have effectively kidnapped the Palestinians and are using them a human shields in their campaign to destroy Israel.

What's the most important thing when negotiating to free hostages? Keep talking. So why wouldn't Israel talk about the old people Hamas wanted to release?Why did they insist it had to be the women, in spite of the fact that at least one was in the military and was regarded by Hamas as a military prisoner. Why did Israel make such a ruling and walk away.?
What sort of human shields can survive Israeli bombardment.?The hostages may very well lie in the rubble with the Palestinian dead.

Glorianny

Mollygo

This will probably be unanswered by you Gloriannny but is that because you won’t or you can’t answer. Please don’t divert it into talking about wings. I’m talking about the Hamas who carried out the attacks whichever wing they were from.

Hamas are responsible for starting this particular conflict by killing and raping innocent people including children.

Do you agree?
If not, why not?

Hamas are responsible for taking innocent civilians including children as hostages.
Do you agree?
If not, why not?

Hamas are responsible for building tunnels underneath homes and hospitals to enable them to continue the activities they started on October 7th.
Do you agree?
If not, what do you believe is the purpose of those tunnels

What do you think the Hamas contribution to stopping this war should be?

Incidentally, I don’t excuse the continued killing that is going on by others in this conflict.

What do you think should happen to stop this conflict.

No this conflict began long before the events of 7/10. Although I can see that it suits some people to ignore what has essentially been Israel holding a country under siege since 2014. (and even that wasn't the start).

Hamas killed raped and captured civilians.

Some of the tunnels under Gaza were built by the Israelis when they controlled Gaza. It was part of the building regulations at the time that underground bunkers were built.
Some of the tunnels under Gaza were built by Hamas to enable the rebuilding of Gaza after the last Israeli bombardment, when they said they would (and did) "bomb Gaza back into the Middle Ages". It was estimated after the destruction that at the rate Israel was permitting building materials into Gaza it would take 80 years to rebuild.

If Israel complied with the UN resolutions and withdrew from the Occupied Territories and agreed to a two state solution Hamas would lose support and become virtually redundant. There would still be a small body of extremists but they would be unlikely to gather much support, so would become largely irrelevant. Hamas wouldn't need to 'do' anything it would be unsupported.

To stop the conflict Israel needs to stop bombing Gaza, needs to open the borders and let aid in. Needs to agree to the existence of a Palestinian State and withdraw from the Occupied territories. They need to make reparation to the thousands of Palestinians they have driven from their homes and assist in the rebuilding of Palestine.
A thriving state of Palestine with people who have economic freedom, human rights and prosperity would be far less dangerous. People with rights, people with financial security, people with a homeland do not support terrorism.

So I've answered all your questions.
So now perhaps you can answer mine When should an occupied people stop fighting the country which occupies and controls them?

A one year old baby being held hostage, you must feel pleased with your friends.

Glorianny

^dismemberment of children and the vulnerable as an official military tactic^
I shall assume this was posted in haste and in ignorance. Otherwise it is so distasteful.
There are currently over 1000 child amputees as the result of Israeli bombing. Many will have further amputations because of the lack of medical treatment
www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gazas-child-amputees-face-further-risks-without-expert-care-2024-01-04/

You are way out of line in your thinking Glorianny, extreme Islamist groups like ISIS, Boko Haram and Hamas do use kidnap, rape and murder as weapons to further their aims and that is exactly what they are doing in Gaza.
They have effectively kidnapped the Palestinians and are using them a human shields in their campaign to destroy Israel.

dismemberment of children and the vulnerable as an official military tactic
I shall assume this was posted in haste and in ignorance. Otherwise it is so distasteful.
There are currently over 1000 child amputees as the result of Israeli bombing. Many will have further amputations because of the lack of medical treatment
www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gazas-child-amputees-face-further-risks-without-expert-care-2024-01-04/

The reason Hamas are not killing thousands of people is because they do not have the wherewithal to do so.

This does not mean that given half a chance they wouldn't do the same.

On the other hand the israeli army would never adopt rape, and the murder and dismemberment of children and the vulnerable as an official military tactic, or even contenance anyone who did.

Great! Glorianny you don’t believe that the actions of Hamas on October 7th caused this particular series of events.
Glorianny what did you/they think would happen when they shot, raped, killed and took hostages?
I wonder

What should Hamas do?

Mollygo

This will probably be unanswered by you Gloriannny but is that because you won’t or you can’t answer. Please don’t divert it into talking about wings. I’m talking about the Hamas who carried out the attacks whichever wing they were from.

Hamas are responsible for starting this particular conflict by killing and raping innocent people including children.

Do you agree?
If not, why not?

Hamas are responsible for taking innocent civilians including children as hostages.
Do you agree?
If not, why not?

Hamas are responsible for building tunnels underneath homes and hospitals to enable them to continue the activities they started on October 7th.
Do you agree?
If not, what do you believe is the purpose of those tunnels

What do you think the Hamas contribution to stopping this war should be?

Incidentally, I don’t excuse the continued killing that is going on by others in this conflict.

What do you think should happen to stop this conflict.

No this conflict began long before the events of 7/10. Although I can see that it suits some people to ignore what has essentially been Israel holding a country under siege since 2014. (and even that wasn't the start).

Hamas killed raped and captured civilians.

Some of the tunnels under Gaza were built by the Israelis when they controlled Gaza. It was part of the building regulations at the time that underground bunkers were built.
Some of the tunnels under Gaza were built by Hamas to enable the rebuilding of Gaza after the last Israeli bombardment, when they said they would (and did) "bomb Gaza back into the Middle Ages". It was estimated after the destruction that at the rate Israel was permitting building materials into Gaza it would take 80 years to rebuild.

If Israel complied with the UN resolutions and withdrew from the Occupied Territories and agreed to a two state solution Hamas would lose support and become virtually redundant. There would still be a small body of extremists but they would be unlikely to gather much support, so would become largely irrelevant. Hamas wouldn't need to 'do' anything it would be unsupported.

To stop the conflict Israel needs to stop bombing Gaza, needs to open the borders and let aid in. Needs to agree to the existence of a Palestinian State and withdraw from the Occupied territories. They need to make reparation to the thousands of Palestinians they have driven from their homes and assist in the rebuilding of Palestine.
A thriving state of Palestine with people who have economic freedom, human rights and prosperity would be far less dangerous. People with rights, people with financial security, people with a homeland do not support terrorism.

So I've answered all your questions.
So now perhaps you can answer mine When should an occupied people stop fighting the country which occupies and controls them?

Oreo it’s a very sobering thought but even 100 years on from now, there could still be no resolution in Israel.
As for Gnet - well we’re all trying to understand the unfathomable. I guess it’s better than trying not to.

ronib

This conflict is not going to stop.

This as in Gransnet thread?

Glorianny

^It doesn’t matter how Gazans view hamas, there will be support of course and a few shades inbetween, but we are where we are.^
And there you have it the real reason why the conflict will continue. Why thousands of Palestinians will die. Why Israel will continue to be attacked. Why the conflict will continue long after this bombing has finished.
Because the views of the people in Gaza don't matter, the views of the Palestinians in the Occupied Territories don't matter.
It's a view Israel has always taken. Blocking the path to recognition of a Palestinian state by the UN because to do so would give the Palestinians the right to pursue Israel for war crimes, torture and violations of International law.

Do you always twist words and meanings?
I said what I said about Gazans and hamas as it doesn’t matter what Gazans think of hamas as they have no choice in the matter of who is in charge there now.They were originally voted in by the majority there, but a long time since there were elections.
So in other words what you say has no bearing at all on the truth of the matter.

This conflict is not going to stop.

This will probably be unanswered by you Gloriannny but is that because you won’t or you can’t answer. Please don’t divert it into talking about wings. I’m talking about the Hamas who carried out the attacks whichever wing they were from.

Hamas are responsible for starting this particular conflict by killing and raping innocent people including children.

Do you agree?
If not, why not?

Hamas are responsible for taking innocent civilians including children as hostages.
Do you agree?
If not, why not?

Hamas are responsible for building tunnels underneath homes and hospitals to enable them to continue the activities they started on October 7th.
Do you agree?
If not, what do you believe is the purpose of those tunnels

What do you think the Hamas contribution to stopping this war should be?

Incidentally, I don’t excuse the continued killing that is going on by others in this conflict.

What do you think should happen to stop this conflict.

Oreo

Comparing the French Resistance to those awful thugs hamas isn’t a reasonable point to raise Glorianny and I think you know that.
It doesn’t matter how Gazans view hamas, there will be support of course and a few shades inbetween, but we are where we are.
From reading your many posts I don’t see any sympathy for those 1,400 people, many children, horribly murdered by hamas breaking into their homes or killing sleeping young people at a music festival, many being tortured and raped as well.Awful as the civilian casualties are in Gaza with the shelling of buildings what hamas did was on a different level.
I and others see both sides of this conflict but you appear to see only one.
Your support of the houthis and your very odd view through rose tinted glasses of the Iran regime just confirm it for me.

I haven't compared the deaths of over 25000 people and the injury of over 62,000 with the events of 7/10 but you have.
Apparently the children killed, horribly injured and dying in pain whilst starving matter less to you than those attacked by Hamas.

I'd say both are catastrophic.
But the responsibility of a country to moderate it's actions matters.
A terrorist organisation is not defeated through killing thousands. Israel knows that very well.
Understanding an issue isn't expressing support it is simply taking a balanced view.

Being discussed was the attack on Israel by Hamas, the political wing ?

Anniebach

In tv interview Corbyn was asked 15 times to call Hamas a terrorist group, he refused

Because Hamas has a political wing just like the IRA and Sinn Fein

It doesn’t matter how Gazans view hamas, there will be support of course and a few shades inbetween, but we are where we are.
And there you have it the real reason why the conflict will continue. Why thousands of Palestinians will die. Why Israel will continue to be attacked. Why the conflict will continue long after this bombing has finished.
Because the views of the people in Gaza don't matter, the views of the Palestinians in the Occupied Territories don't matter.
It's a view Israel has always taken. Blocking the path to recognition of a Palestinian state by the UN because to do so would give the Palestinians the right to pursue Israel for war crimes, torture and violations of International law.

maddyone

She’s made a few on other posters too, or didn’t you notice since you agree with her?

🤣🤣🤣

She’s made a few on other posters too, or didn’t you notice since you agree with her?

Wow, just wow! Disagreeing with someone is fine but a group of you are persistently making personal attacks on Glorianny which is not acceptable.

Bit like the BBC then!

In tv interview Corbyn was asked 15 times to call Hamas a terrorist group, he refused

Glorianny is a Corbyn fan girl. There is no point having any discussion with her on this or any other subject.

Little Britain and “computer says no” always spring to mind when reading some of the posts. Like an automaton programmed to only react a certain way. Some see this behaviour as strong minded but it isn’t. It’s indicative of a closed mindset, incapable of objectivity and stifles any meaningful discussion or debate.

Personally, I wouldn’t bother; it’s futile and soooo boring.

Comparing the French Resistance to those awful thugs hamas isn’t a reasonable point to raise Glorianny and I think you know that.
It doesn’t matter how Gazans view hamas, there will be support of course and a few shades inbetween, but we are where we are.
From reading your many posts I don’t see any sympathy for those 1,400 people, many children, horribly murdered by hamas breaking into their homes or killing sleeping young people at a music festival, many being tortured and raped as well.Awful as the civilian casualties are in Gaza with the shelling of buildings what hamas did was on a different level.
I and others see both sides of this conflict but you appear to see only one.
Your support of the houthis and your very odd view through rose tinted glasses of the Iran regime just confirm it for me.

Oh dear some people do seem offended when a quite reasonable point is raised.. So put it like this if you were Palestinian, your grandmother had been a refugee, your mother had been a refugee, your family was split between Gaza and the Occupied Territories how do you think you would regard Hamas? The only organisation which had ever stood up to the country which had exiled and seperated your family?
It's about understanding. And the international community has played its part in this never enforcing a single UN resolution