Is escalating the conflict by bombing the Houthis the way to go?

Callistemon, if Hamas and Netanyahu were to agree to a civilised discussion of ideas about the way to go the whole world would applaud.

Katie59

“As for Saudi being our friends - it’s oil. You may not agree but the west needs oil.”

It’s far from being just oil they are investing big time in the UK, but then so is China and lot of other odious governments that I would not like to live under.

To say Saudi are as bad as Iran just goes to show how out of touch some are.

Well that's alright then, if they are investing.!!

What do they have to do?
They already imprison women just for writing tweets.
They execute children.
Here's the details
www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/saudi-arabia/report-saudi-arabia/

as for Charles, Saudi and Martin McGuiness I don’t think the IRA were still bombing and killing indiscriminately when they met ……
McGuiness claims to have left the IRA, where he was a Commander, in 1974. His hand shake with Charles took place in May 2015. The Queen shook hands with McGuineaa in 2012.
Glory, you’re quick to criticise any diplomatic attempts by the royal family where the Saudis are concerned. The RF contribute to attempts to build bridges with regimes/political parties we may not always see, or have seen, as acceptable

“As for Saudi being our friends - it’s oil. You may not agree but the west needs oil.”

It’s far from being just oil they are investing big time in the UK, but then so is China and lot of other odious governments that I would not like to live under.

To say Saudi are as bad as Iran just goes to show how out of touch some are.

tickingbird

Glorianny

Saudi aren’t good and I have never said otherwise. Their regime is as foul as Iran’s. However, you are blindly missing my point (no surprise there).

Iran fought Isis because they’re Sunni Muslims, not out of altruism. Isis butchered Yazizi Muslims because they aren’t practicing the ‘correct’ branch of Islam. Isis butchered Shia Muslims for the same reason. Iran are Shia so therefore they support anyone fighting Isis.

It is you that doesn’t understand.

As for Saudi being our friends - it’s oil. You may not agree but the west needs oil.

Bringing the Royals into it is just deflection. The Royals are figureheads. Prince Charles had to shake the hand of Martin McGuiness who was behind the plot to blow up his beloved uncle. I’m sure he would have much preferred not to but that’s diplomacy.

It’s amazing how Muslims take to the streets again and again over Palestine but many were rushing off to join Isis when they were on their murderous rampage.

You should open your mind but are obviously incapable.

I understand tickingbird but the reasons that different Muslim countries attack or support each other is largely irrelevant to the west.
What is important is the degree of support or interference that comes from the west.
Certainly with Saudi it's oil (I think I said so).
Iraq (almost equally Shia and Sunni) raged an intense and devastating war against Iran. That's why Saddam Hussein was in power. He was a US plant.
Iran threw out their US plant -the Shah. One of the reasons for the Islamic revolution was the desire to see an end to US interference.

As for Charles, Saudi and Martin McGuiness I don't think the IRA were still bombing and killing indiscriminately when they met, and McGuiness didn't hand over a plastic bag of cash

You seem to blinded a little by the factions of Islam.
Which has absolutely nothing to do with why we arm some countries but condemn others.

Caleo

Callistemon wrote:

"Inflexibility of views is what starts conflicts."

Ad hominem. The person who states their opinion may have many faults but those should have nothing to do with the fair evaluation of any of their ideas.

So you don't agree that Netanyahu and Hamas could have inflexible views?

If not, why are they not sitting round a negotiating table?

Glorianny

Saudi aren’t good and I have never said otherwise. Their regime is as foul as Iran’s. However, you are blindly missing my point (no surprise there).

Iran fought Isis because they’re Sunni Muslims, not out of altruism. Isis butchered Yazizi Muslims because they aren’t practicing the ‘correct’ branch of Islam. Isis butchered Shia Muslims for the same reason. Iran are Shia so therefore they support anyone fighting Isis.

It is you that doesn’t understand.

As for Saudi being our friends - it’s oil. You may not agree but the west needs oil.

Bringing the Royals into it is just deflection. The Royals are figureheads. Prince Charles had to shake the hand of Martin McGuiness who was behind the plot to blow up his beloved uncle. I’m sure he would have much preferred not to but that’s diplomacy.

It’s amazing how Muslims take to the streets again and again over Palestine but many were rushing off to join Isis when they were on their murderous rampage.

You should open your mind but are obviously incapable.

Yes, insidious, and more dangerously insidious in its intention too.

Glorianny wrote:

"---this piece of inaccurate, simplistic, biased crap passes unnoticed-----"

It may well be because your literary style is more interesting. I have found in other media than Gransnet that Rightish crap is insidious in its effect.

Callistemon wrote:

"Inflexibility of views is what starts conflicts."

Ad hominem. The person who states their opinion may have many faults but those should have nothing to do with the fair evaluation of any of their ideas.

Katie59

It’s not just the Jewish state is it Muslim extremists are dedicated to destroying all non Muslim cultures
They call themselves Hamas, ISIS, Houthi, Boco Haram, Hezbolah, Al-Kayda, Taliban and many other groups, they are armed by Iran principaly.
Given the chance they will kill as many non believers as they can, a large proportion of Muslims either passively or actively support their aims.

This is simplistic Callistemon21.
How come it's my more nuanced view of the Middle East and terrorism that is criticised when this piece of inaccurate, simplistic, biased crap passes unnoticed?

Glorianny

Callistemon21

You really need to keep up with the latest investigations, Glorianny instead of relying on biased Wikipedia.

Saudi are still linked Callistemon. They have still been sold millions of pounds worth of arms by the UK and they have still slaughtered Yemenis.

Too simplistic, Glorianny, as Iam64 says.

Inflexibility of views is what starts conflicts.

Iam64

The links between ‘the west’ and the Middle East in Politics, in the continuing links between royal families isn’t new. Age old ‘friendships’ continue and ethics don’t often sit easily with them. The feuds, the wars, the animosity between states which are often fed by Russia, China and western countries all threaten stability. That makes for ‘friendships’ which are convoluted and hard to understand.
Attempting to address this by suggesting Iran is somehow ok and Saudi isn’t seems simplistic to say the least.

I have never suggested Iran is OK but Saudi isn't.
I have said both countries (and Qatar) have appalling records on human rights and have funded terrorism when it suited them.
But one country is sold huge amounts of armaments by us which it has used to create what was described for 2 years as "the worst humanitarian crisis" in Yemen.
www.globalcitizen.org/es/content/yemen-worst-humanitarian-crisis/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAwvKtBhDrARIsAJj-kThNh1n9i2uF7fpBVrZ8PgpL5GntTIXayPozyByTq_LpUDXQXy4EWwIaAnxkEALw_wcB
Quite how in a democratic country that ties into Royals being friends I don't know.

The links between ‘the west’ and the Middle East in Politics, in the continuing links between royal families isn’t new. Age old ‘friendships’ continue and ethics don’t often sit easily with them. The feuds, the wars, the animosity between states which are often fed by Russia, China and western countries all threaten stability. That makes for ‘friendships’ which are convoluted and hard to understand.
Attempting to address this by suggesting Iran is somehow ok and Saudi isn’t seems simplistic to say the least.

Callistemon21

You really need to keep up with the latest investigations, Glorianny instead of relying on biased Wikipedia.

Saudi are still linked Callistemon. They have still been sold millions of pounds worth of arms by the UK and they have still slaughtered Yemenis.

ronib

glorianny don’t you mean Qatar?

I have just realised what you are referring to rnib and yes Qatar have now been linked to the funding as well.
Another friend of ours of course, hosting football and now advertising itself as a holiday destination.

Katie59

Glorianny

ronib

glorianny don’t you mean Qatar?

No I mean Saudi, which many of us have been campaigning against for along time
caat.org.uk/homepage/stop-arming-saudi-arabia/

Glorianny you write rubbish Saudi did not arm ISIS
www.amnesty.org.uk/how-isis-islamic-state-isil-got-its-weapons-iraq-syria.

Maybe you are a Muslim and understandably biased, if not you are totally unrealistic of the cause and likely resolution of the Gaza conflict.

That article is about where the arms came from. The funding is something else

You really need to keep up with the latest investigations, Glorianny instead of relying on biased Wikipedia.

tickingbird

Glorianny

What you talk of is anything but sensible; you routinely post nonsense I’m afraid and Wikipedia isn’t the best source.

I’ve explained to you before about Saudi being Sunni, same as Isis and Iran being Shia. It’s not rocket science and they aren’t really our friends!

Oh I see Saudi, entertained by the king (who took receipt of a plastic carrier bag), given lavish lunches by the late Queen, having meetings with government ministers and being sold huge amounts of armaments are not our friends. Who knew????
The branch of Islam they follow isn't really relevant is it.
I don't suppose those murdered by ISIS, or the thousands of Yemenis slaughtered stopped to consider which branch of Islam was killing them.

If you don't get it tickingbird it is about how we are sold prejudice, how our views are neatly packaged up and presented to us. So that all most can think is Islam bad, Iran very bad.
But Saudis are our friends. When actually they are both states which practice repression and deal in terrorism.
But of course one of them has oil.

Glorianny

ronib

glorianny don’t you mean Qatar?

No I mean Saudi, which many of us have been campaigning against for along time
caat.org.uk/homepage/stop-arming-saudi-arabia/

Glorianny you write rubbish Saudi did not arm ISIS
www.amnesty.org.uk/how-isis-islamic-state-isil-got-its-weapons-iraq-syria.

Maybe you are a Muslim and understandably biased, if not you are totally unrealistic of the cause and likely resolution of the Gaza conflict.

Glorianny

ronib

glorianny don’t you mean Qatar?

No I mean Saudi, which many of us have been campaigning against for along time
caat.org.uk/homepage/stop-arming-saudi-arabia/

Now found to be untrue.

Glorianny

What you talk of is anything but sensible; you routinely post nonsense I’m afraid and Wikipedia isn’t the best source.

I’ve explained to you before about Saudi being Sunni, same as Isis and Iran being Shia. It’s not rocket science and they aren’t really our friends!

Iam64

*oh dear, people will generalise won’t they*
Another patronising comment, followed by ‘expert’ info from Wikipedia
Nonsense

But anybody can edit Wikipedia so can it be a reliable source?
It can if it supports your POV. 😁

tickingbird

Glorianny

I’ve tried to educate you before but you blindly refuse to open your mind to the truth as it doesn’t suit your narrative.

Saudi is Sunni, as are Isis. Iran are Shia.

Nothing to do with helping anyone just religious nonsense of different sects. It’s also tribal. When are you going to stop regurgitating this nonsense?

I didn't mention sects.
I simply find it ridiculous that Saudi who funded and armed Isis and have destroyed Yemen are welcomed as our friends and supplied with weapons. Whereas Iran who fought against Isis are our enemy although we were fighting them as well.

Does the sect or the tribe matter?
It's a very simple question. Why is a country which is not only strictly Muslim, but which has funded the worst (and possibly the most successful) terrorist group, and killed thousand in Yemen our friend?
While a country which is equally as restrictive, which fought the worst terrorist group and fought Saddam Hussein is our enemy?
You may regard it as sensible. I don't.

ronib

glorianny don’t you mean Qatar?

No I mean Saudi, which many of us have been campaigning against for along time
caat.org.uk/homepage/stop-arming-saudi-arabia/