POST OFFICE HORIZON SOFTWARE ORIGINALLY AIMED AT CLAIMANTS

This takes you to the rest of the article
www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/post-office-horizon-software-originally-aimed-at-claimants#:~:text=The%20Horizon%20software%20at%20the,with%20benefits%20and%20pension%20payments.

As a retired IT developer I am astounded that known "bugs" were not fixed as soon as they were noticed. True modern systems are often so complex that no one person can know them fully. However the developers are split into teams with each team fully understanding their own parts.

Inflexible standards and inspections designed to make systems robust can make simple fault fixing almost impossible to sign off. I suspect that excessive bureaucracy played a part in this sad story.

From what I have been reading, both some of the Appeal Court judgement, transcripts of evidence being given to the public inquiry, and a podcast featuring an interview with Nick Wallis, the journalist who's been on the case for years, it seems that Fujitsu was a poor and struggling company when it was initially commissioned to develop this IT system. Witnesses have commented on the very poor quality of the software developers and incompetence in design.

It sounds to me as though the company was winging it for a long time, as protocols and procedures didn't seem to improve over the years. I wonder if the fact that they had a base in Tony Blair's constituency, which was threatened with closure should the contract be terminated, had anything to do with the decision to continue with Horizon, despite doubts about it, once the benefits payment element had been abandoned?

Wallis pointed out that Fujitsu has grown massively on the strength of that PO contract and is now a major UK government IT contractor. I only hope it's upped its game over the years.

I have had a recent experience of something happening with the DWP where money was shown to be being paid but no money was going in the actual account. I had to involve my MP in the end. Absolutely nobody ‘professional’ would listen to me that the money was not going into the account. It has caused me a great deal of stress over a 14 month period

Would you believe that Fujitsu staff also work on HMRC's computers. 300 of them went on strike on the 18th for better pay.

Interesting to hear view from the point if your knowledge Cindersdad.

Listening to some of the questioning from the Inquiry it seems that the areas concerning the prosecutions were siloed, which seems to have meant they only got exactly what they asked for as evidence.

The insulation of one teams from another and a preference to automatically disbelieve the Post Masters - some of the questioning of Post Masters by the Post Office was very disparaging - set them up to be proved guilty . Known evidence about the system also seems not to have been given to the defence.

The system was bad but the culture seems even worse.

MaizieD
IMO Tony Blair’s fingerprints are all over this horror. Why did Gordon Brown want to ditch it.
And why are postmasters still having problems

news.sky.com/story/post-office-scandal-distressed-sub-postmasters-say-horizon-system-still-causing-mystery-shortfalls-13051799#:~:text=A%20group%20representing%20almost%201%2C000,shortfalls%2C%20which%20are%20wrecking%20businesses.

John Major launched the Horizon project, and Tony Blair was warned of potential issues with the system.

He raised concerns, but was reassured by all concerned that there was no real issue to be addressed.

So, yes, Blair was told of possible issues, he followed it through and was advised by systems engineers that there was no real problem. Blair did his job, what should he have done? He had no skills to look into it himself - of course he didn’t - so he did what you petra would have done and no doubt do - that is to rely on experts.

I had months and months of problems with British Gas when they changed from an old computer system to a new one. They had no idea what was going on.

It was easier and safer when we had a passbook where we could walk into a bank branch and have someone write our investments and withdrawals in a little passbook and sign it.

I am computer literate but even knowing most things about using a computer, if the system goes wrong you cannot do a thing about it.

Alistair Darling and Gordon Brown, both honest men listened to the experts and rejected the project, but trade with Japan trumped their worries.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/12/tony-blair-was-warned-about-flawed-horizon-system-memo-shows

That is because the problem had not gone away. Neither had it gone away when Cameron, May , Johnson and Sunak were in office.

Whitewavemark2

That is because the problem had not gone away. Neither had it gone away when Cameron, May , Johnson and Sunak were in office.

Tony Blair signed it off. The buck stops with him.

petra

Whitewavemark2

That is because the problem had not gone away. Neither had it gone away when Cameron, May , Johnson and Sunak were in office.

Tony Blair signed it off. The buck stops with him.

In your simplistic black and white world where politicians are experts on every single topic under the sun, maybe, petra.

In the real world, where politicians are guided by experts, as well as what is politically expedient, perhaps it's not so simple.

However, at least you've chosen a hate figure that can't be damaged in any way.

The "buck" stops in America petra. In this country we require each guilty person to take responsibility.

Blair was told the system had been “thoroughly evaluated by independent experts” who pronounced it “viable, robust and of a design which should accommodate future technological developments”. I'm not sure what you think he is guilty of, other than not having second sight.

If you have watched the enquiry it seems to be the case that both Fujitsu and the Post Office were more interested in there own brand reputation than the truth. However, the evidence has piled up over the years. The closer we get to today, the more evidence piled up, but governments chose to ignore the increasing volumn.

There are many sharing the blame but we cannot leap to conclusions purely based on personal bias. It will all come out when the Inquiry reports.

Fujitsu is everywhere in the uk, far and wide. Years ago ds worked for them, in the home office, on their IT system

This was a bloody disgrace I truly hope someone from the post office or Fujitsu pays dearly for this
I remember yrs ago a local resident post mistress closing because of this and she died under a dark cloud

I was talking with a Sub Postmaster who told me they were affected by the Horizon software. "But", they said, "the Post Office sent the engineers in". In reply to my puzzled look, they said, "the system was saying the Post Office owed US £xx,xxx. If it had said we owed them, they would have sent the auditors"

There were those in the Post Office who knew exactly what they were doing.

I note that the Early Day Motion in January calling on the government to put right the wrongs of the sub-postmaster scandal was signed by 88 MPs but only one of those was a Tory MP. Is it any wonder that the population has lost trust in the Tories? Bring on the General Election and let us have done with them: they have sat for far too long.