Princess of Wales

The Welsh administration’s management of the National Health Service has been so bad that David Cameron, when prime minister, called the border with England “the line between life and death”. More than 30,000 people in Wales have waited more than two years for treatment; many vacancies remain unfilled because morale has collapsed in the NHS and many decline to work for it; and all this is despite the Welsh NHS receiving £1.20 for every pound received by the English service. There were, and still are, stories of Welsh people turning up at English hospitals for emergency treatment, so wrecked is their confidence in the NHS at home.

Thanks for the information, Jane43
Perhaps it's just Wales - in fact, the Welsh patients I know who had procedures done at private hospitals were sent over the border to England, but this seems to have been stopped now.

Thank you Ilovecheese.

I have used private healthcare in the past, through insurance. The experiences were that it was very quick to access and I was treated in a very pleasant and respectful way - my distinct impression was that the consultants had time for me. The private hospital was a world away from the local, albeit world famous, NHS hospital. Very much like a hotel. That was a good many years ago. Now, the cost of insurance at our age and with existing health conditions is such that we would have to use savings.

Callistemon21

Grantanow

I didn't 'rail' at people who pay to go privately Callistemon21 but I do think the Royals might set an example by using the NHS. There is no doubt in my mind that going privately is queue jumping.

You are right that all this is the fault of successive governments. If we had no private medical industry then all the resources could be directed to the NHS.

You are right that all this is the fault of successive governments. If we had no private medical industry then all the resources could be directed to the NHS.

I think that's wishful thinking and it just would not happen. All Governments seem quite happy to have private healthcare alongside a public NHS to relieve the strain on the NHS and where would the huge amount of extra money come from to fund this when they can scarcely find enough to keep the NHS going as it is?
Medical staff would desert these shores and go to work in countries which would welcome them and we would lose their expertise.

At one time the NHS bought services from the private sector eg cataract operations, joint replacements, ENT operations which may have been cost-effective but that doesn't seem to happen here now.

I think the NHS is still purchasing services from private providers because last year I had a cataract procedure at a private clinic only four weeks after being referred by the optician via my GP. Six weeks later I had the second procedure at the same clinic. When I was waiting for the pre op and both procedures I spoke to several people who had also been referred by their GP, only one person was paying for the procedure.

Medical staff are going abroad now, for higher pay and more respect. That is market forces for you (something the Conservatives are supposed to believe in following).

Of course the Princess of Wales can't use the NHS, because of security and because journalists would disrupt the hospital.
What I find wrong is the unthinking assumption that everybody would go private if they had the opportunity, it is just not true.
GSM has given what I would call a thoughtful and considered responce, which, while I may not agree with the sentiment, I respect as not the usual knee jerk.

I am certainly not suggesting that users of private health companies have no principles, but that principles are individual, and that all of us, in the main, try to stick to our own values, whatever they are.

I agree with honeyrose:
"People are going to speculate about why the Princess of Wales is having surgery - it’s human nature. I’m speculating myself (even though I know it’s none of my business)."
I am speculating because I am worried and concerned about her. Its a long time in hospital and a long time for convalescence. I do so much hope she makes a full recovery for the sake of her family and because she is a wonderful person.

You are right that all this is the fault of successive governments. Agreed

If we had no private medical industry then all the resources could be directed to the NHS.

Are you imagining that those who pay for private treatment (on top of their tax and NI contributions to the NHS) would suddenly put the payments they make for private treatment into the NHS?

I’m more inclined to think they’d take their money abroad as some already do, and the medical staff would probably follow.

MayBee70

I was only thinking how well the Royal family were doing health wise. I, too hope she makes a full recovery and hope it isn’t anything too serious ( although it must be pretty serious to warrant so much time in hospital). My first thought was hysterectomy and she might struggle to stay so stick thin afterwards.

I thought so too!

Grantanow

I didn't 'rail' at people who pay to go privately Callistemon21 but I do think the Royals might set an example by using the NHS. There is no doubt in my mind that going privately is queue jumping.

You are right that all this is the fault of successive governments. If we had no private medical industry then all the resources could be directed to the NHS.

You are right that all this is the fault of successive governments. If we had no private medical industry then all the resources could be directed to the NHS.

I think that's wishful thinking and it just would not happen. All Governments seem quite happy to have private healthcare alongside a public NHS to relieve the strain on the NHS and where would the huge amount of extra money come from to fund this when they can scarcely find enough to keep the NHS going as it is?
Medical staff would desert these shores and go to work in countries which would welcome them and we would lose their expertise.

At one time the NHS bought services from the private sector eg cataract operations, joint replacements, ENT operations which may have been cost-effective but that doesn't seem to happen here now.

Germanshepherdsmum

It doesn’t mean that those who can afford private treatment should refuse it. If they did the waiting lists would be even longer.

This is very true.

Grantanow

I didn't 'rail' at people who pay to go privately Callistemon21 but I do think the Royals might set an example by using the NHS. There is no doubt in my mind that going privately is queue jumping.

You are right that all this is the fault of successive governments. If we had no private medical industry then all the resources could be directed to the NHS.

Rail at someone:
Criticise strongly for their failure or wrongdoing

I didn't say you did, just that you (and all of us) need to take successive Governments to task (rail at them) because they are failing the NHS therefore failing all of us.

Some might look on it as queue jumping but how is that logical?
Queue jumping would mean jumping to the head of the NHS queue.

I'm on the NHS Wales list for two operations and it looks as if the wait could be 4-5 years.
If I go to a private hospital (probably one in England) how does that possibly mean I am jumping the NHS queue?
What it does mean is that someone else moves up the NHS list in my place.

Do you mean that private healthcare should be banned altogether in the UK?

If we had no private medicine, what resources would thereby be directed to the NHS?

I too am wondering.

Sorry Grannynannywanny I see that you made exactly the same point.

Grantanow

I didn't 'rail' at people who pay to go privately Callistemon21 but I do think the Royals might set an example by using the NHS. There is no doubt in my mind that going privately is queue jumping.

You are right that all this is the fault of successive governments. If we had no private medical industry then all the resources could be directed to the NHS.

Can you begin to imagine the huge security considerations of treating a senior member of the Royal family in an NHS hospital? It would be absolute mayhem and disrupt the care of other patients. Sometimes we need to see the bigger picture.

Using private health treatment is paying twice.
Once is the contribution for the healthcare made by all who pay tax and national insurance, for the healthcare that other people are getting.
Then you pay for the care that you’re getting by going privately whilst leaving what resources there are in the NHS for those who can’t afford to go privately, or who choose not to do so.
It’s wrong, that people are pushed into borrowing money to pay for private treatment when they have paid through their taxes and NI for treatment on the NHS which is overstretched and now expected to cater for people who have made no contribution.

Going privately is not queue jumping. Many people have resorted to private hospitals for surgery using savings or borrowing money because their quality of life is severely impaired by pain and they are unable to continue without intervention.

Members of the Royal family couldn’t have their treatment in an NHS hospital. It would involve a massive and very expensive security operation for the duration of their stay. Including 20 odd patients being turfed out of the ward as the entire area would need to be cordoned off for security reasons. During the 10 days estimated for her stay in hospital that could amount to over 100 surgical patients denied treatment.

DH had his appendix removed as an NHS emergency patient but the next day was transferred to the Nuffield where he spent a week on antibiotics. He freed up space for more patients in the NHS hospital.

the Royals might set an example by using the NHS

Really? Then you’d complain that they were taking the place of someone else and could have afforded to ‘go private’!

If we had no private medicine, what resources would thereby be directed to the NHS?

I think if private healthcare is part of your employment contract, the idea behind that is to get the op done quickly and to return to work ASAP. Bosses don't want high paid staff sitting around at home waiting for NHS treatment. Time is money and productivity matters.

Mollygo

Thanks grantanow, but did it reveal how many of the audience/panel had private healthcare?

No, it didn't reveal who on the panel or in the audience had private health care but one panel member said he could afford private care but chose to use the NHS.

I didn't 'rail' at people who pay to go privately Callistemon21 but I do think the Royals might set an example by using the NHS. There is no doubt in my mind that going privately is queue jumping.

You are right that all this is the fault of successive governments. If we had no private medical industry then all the resources could be directed to the NHS.

When I had bowel cancer and had a large portion of large intestine removed I was only in hospital for six days. To get my diagnosis I had to go private and paid for the colonoscopy, £2,000 well spent.
I doubt the Princess of Wales has Crohn's disease, she would be too weak to be so active and carry out so many public appearances.
I do wish her a speedy recovery.

I too wish her quickly better. I think that silverlining's comment about length of stays in hospital was drawing attention to the fact that 10 -14 days in hospital is a long time these days and indicates that her op may not have been all that minor.

Anyone having gastrointestinal surgery can expect a long stay in hospital NHS or Private. Kate always looks lovely clothes wise and she is always beautifully made up but I have felt recently that she has gone from slim to thin.