Migrants are keeping the NHS afloat not drowning it!

Oreo,
100 per cent agree.

WonderfulLife, I have been where you were with your husband. I actually employed somebody to stay overnight with my Grandfather when he was in hospital so I could get some rest as I was there all day. The hospital seemed to have no idea about dementia, his tablets were just left with him as was his food, drinks were left out of reach and mistakes were frequently made about his ailments.
Similarly with my Mother, with the records being wrong and which have impacted us ever since with medical professionals. I have tried to get things corrected but it seems this takes far more energy than I have. When my Mum left hospital for her care home, the staff couldn't believe the state of her hair which hadn't been washed for 16 weeks and the state of her skin where she wasn't been moved properly.
We went to PALS several times and they were helpful but the bottom line is that complaints were met by apathy with the staff and there seemed no will to change things.
At the end of the day, all the staff (migrants and home born) were welcome in my book but I just want the appropriate care for my relatives and I think to get that the NHS needs overhauling radically. They certainly need more staff wherever they come from.

Based on my interaction with a locum GP then I think the English test is definitely not suitable. I had a phone call with this particular locum, I couldn't understand him and he apparently couldn't understand me judging by the responses. In the end he consulted one of the permanent GP's at the practice ( goodness knows what info he passed on) and sent me a couple of paragraphs to read the first line of which said if a person had had this articular complaint for more than 2 weeks consult your GP. I had stressed over and again that my problem had lasted arpund 4 months and was not improving despite prescribed medication.

I haven't read the full thread but the rhetoric of 'boat people' is absolutely disgusting and dehumanising language

I strongly suspect the people arriving on boats have few or any qualifications and most are economic migrants.
I totally agree with the Rwanda policy as a deterrent as so many have lost their lives on overcrowded boats and also suffocated in lorries. Hoping it will at least halve the death rate

the colonies 😁

Ps Ghana was a colony too

Germanshepherdsmum

I suspect that the nurses arrived through legal channels rather than on boats.

I agree. Many are poached from countries like Ghana who train their own nurses only to lose them to better paid jobs here just as many of our home trained nurses find more lucrative employment in the colonies or working for agencies here. That's why we should pay our nurses more

The young fighting age men arriving on the dinghies without any paperwork aren’t nurses etc what is happening with the different wars in the world I think we should be scared who is coming on a dingy these ppl are trained as children as witnessed by my son and daughter inlaw who saw children as young as 3 learning to fight with knives. I too have just been in hospital and was aided by two lovely African nurses. They were absolutely very caring and nothing was too much trouble for me. and definitely didn’t arrive on a dingy

Many of the healthcare professionals coming here to work for the NHS are from countries where it is very expensive to train them and we end up with the benefit of that. Seems wrong that we poach these workers from often poor countries yet our own staff rush off to places like Australia to get better pay and conditions.

My dear Mum is gravely ill on a ward atm 100% of the Nursing/ward aides/cleaners/ tea trolley Staff are not white British and thank fir each and every one of them!

This country needs more workers and after Brexit we lost a lot of Europeans.
I have been baffled by the way we have treated the refugees. Instead of giving them temporary visas, taxing them, and allowing them to find their own accommodation (many have family and friends here) we made a big fuss of accommodating and publicising eye watering amounts to do so. Most immigrants to this country in the past were not put up in hotels.
I knew the refugees were a small percentage of our intake. Look up how many people from Hong Kong have arrived. But the people on boats have bedn demonised. Give them legal routes and smugglers will disappear.
Now it turns out the refugees can work and pay towards accommodation (see The Telegraph). Makes sense
Truth is immigration is a deflection tactic by a government who thinks we are stupid.
They produce a toxic environment for the people who work here from other countries and yes save our lives. The sooner we get a better managed country for us all will make me happy.
Our birth rate is plummeting. Over half of working adults are over 50. We need people from overseas who want to work here from skilled to yes not skilled.
About time the government was honest with us.
Finally, Rwanda is an absolutely abhorrent idea, It costs thousands of pounds to send one strong male with links and loyalty to this country to Rwanda and in return we get a refugee already in Rwanda who needs medical treatment. It’s an exchange agreed by Rwanda and UK. What madness is this?
We need strong workers, especially if we build more houses.

Callistemon21

I find it amazing, as Australians with the nursing qualifications to degree level were made to a) take an English examination at their own expense even though English is their first language and b) take a Masters degree (again at their own expense) before being allowed to work as a nurse, all the time working as a HCA to fund themselves.

That is ludicrous!

*Fancythat says "350 boat people were supposed to have arrived yesterday.
I havent worked out the math properly, but if that was every day, that works out roughly at 110,000 per year.
Quite a sizeable number."

It amazes me that our Royal Navy/Coastguard/Border Force are unable to spot a small boat ith Radar, Drones, Binoculars and even the naked eye on a good day over our vast 18 mikes of English Channel - they must be really crap!

Foxie48* has it right "There is so much misinformation that plays on people's fears, ignorance and racism. That is to win votes at the next election ... and the Home Office has 'lost' most of the ones scheduled for Rwanda anyway! the only person winning here is Paul Kagame, and he is getting cheesed off that he is starting to look like a fool.

Regarding the 'cat' comment, there are plenty of our 'home grown' nurses that I wouldn't let look after my cat, and after 24 lots of surgery and being a nurse myself, I have had far too much experience of it sadly.

As *Wondefullife says "I also saw other patients, laying on their backs, being brought food and it being left on night stands, they were not even helped up so they could eat their meals, oxygen masks had dropped from their faces so because I was there from 10 am t 11 pm, I was the one helping them with the oxygen and fetching nurses to help them eat. It was frightening. I have also been through this in my local 'hellhole' - a sweet old lady being left without food and not given drinks. The tray comes round, left on the table at the end of the bed and is collected an hour later by someone else, usually a cleaner. Every mealtime I had to remind them that this lady hadn't been fed, I gave her drinks and drew the curtains because the sun was streaming in her eyes, and covered her up when she was shivering. It was dire ....

They are being poached, though.

Australia has recruitment campaigns to persuade our professional and skilled staff to emigrate there, as does New Zealand.

However, we do the same.
It is a merry-go-round

Callistemon21

We're short of medical staff because our own home-grown, home-trained staff are poached by other countries.

It's all like a merry-go-round.

Not necessarily 'poached', they have been working in dire conditions, some of the hospitals are crumbling, they are short staffed because they don't/can't fill the vacancies so are always having to work with agency staff/locums - I'm not surprised they go elsewhere.

One way of sorting this is not to have them leaving their training with £100k or whatever in debt - if they were to have free training and committed to stay with the NHS for a certain number of years (but had to pay it back if they left) it could solve some of the issues maybe?

Sorry if I'm repeating other posters' comments but I haven't read all of them.
Obviously we all feel that genuine refugees should be helped, but otherwide there's a world of difference between a legal immigrant and an illegal one, especially if they are not even willing to prove their identity or country of origin.
Many "illegals" are unskilled and some are illiterate. They cannot work unless they learn to read and write, learn to speak English, are trained in a saleable skill and are willing to work. The idea of many of the illegal immigrants working in skilled jobs within a short time-scale is laughable, though I do agree that extending opportunities for legal immigration is a good thing.

I am amazed that gransnet is allowing such a politised thread. It seems to me that people should get their facts right before making such statements.

I did complain, yes, stressing the nurses were very pleasant but obvs not fully used to the English language and mistakes were being constantly made.
As far as food was concerned, Mum filled in what she wanted for lunch too on a printed menu for the next day, but was told one evening that her op was going to take place the next morning or afternoon so no food for that day, and a nurse put up the Nil By Mouth notice early the next morning.Poor Mum had to wait until 3 pm the next day for the op and was gasping for a cuppa. The assistant on the food trolley had barely any English and could only say ok when I convinced her to eventually take the plate away.
Mistakes were made twice over meds, the correct meds were given but in the wrong dosage.
It certainly made me think how many mistakes must be made daily in hospitals.
I did receive a letter from the hospital which apologised for the wrong dosage of meds for Mum, it pointed out that it had been put right before any harm was done ( yeah! Cos I was there!)
This was on a geriatric ward where some of the patients looked like vulnerable cases and had nobody with them.

My friend was a trained nurse. Several years ago her Mum had a Brain tumour and major surgery. She rang up the next day to ask how she was and the foreign nurse kept saying “she fine, she fine.” My friend said “look, she has been sliced open from ear to ear and had a large tumour removed. What is she doing?”
“She eating porridge” was the reply. My friend knew her Mum could not possibly feed herself and said so and put the phone down. Short while later she rang back and asked to speak to a Sister and it transpired that they had confused her with another patient even though her surname is very, very unusual so hardly likely to be confused with a similar name.

Oreo

growstuff

WonderfulLife Presumably the people making the mistakes were nurses. You should have complained directly to the hospital.

I had the same problems when my Mum was in hospital for three weeks a few years ago.Very pleasant foreign nurses who got things wrong through language misunderstandings.I tried to be there for her as much as possible but it was worrying how many mistakes were made.Over subscribing medication by miles, not understanding a food allergy and one comical time bringing her a hand towel when she asked for a tissue.
The assistants who brought round the food trolleys were also not English speakers, or appeared not to be as they dumped a hot meal on her bedside food table when it clearly said Nil By Mouth on a large notice since she was awaiting her operation.
If I hadn’t been there, or she had been confused she may have eaten it all.

That's very strange. All the nurses who gave me drugs referred to my drug chart before giving me anything. My meals were ordered the day before and came to me with the sheet that I had completed so I knew it tallied with what I'd ordered and there were 2 patients out of 4 on my little ward who needed help to eat and they were given priority. I hope you wrote to the Patient Liaison people with your concerns as this is very unusual practice in hospitals. They may be a bit pushed but I felt very safe and the kindness of all staff towards patients was obvious even though one of the patients was quite difficult at times.

spabbygirl

I love having people from all over the world around me, in the NHS & otherwise, there are many roles in hospitals they could do, not just dr nurse, and exams + supervision could prove if someone has the right skills for each job. I remember when food was meat & 2 veg & immigration has given us a lot food wise, and in many other ways. There are no safe ways for many people to arrive to us so I'd like to see an application centre in Calais so people apply there & if successful & just get the ferry here. Those coming by small boats are then presumably those that don't qualify & could be returned.

This made me smile in a wry way after what I have just posted about my Mum in hospital.
I don’t mind where people in the NHS come from either but I object to people not having good enough English to properly care for patients as they should.

growstuff

WonderfulLife Presumably the people making the mistakes were nurses. You should have complained directly to the hospital.

I had the same problems when my Mum was in hospital for three weeks a few years ago.Very pleasant foreign nurses who got things wrong through language misunderstandings.I tried to be there for her as much as possible but it was worrying how many mistakes were made.Over subscribing medication by miles, not understanding a food allergy and one comical time bringing her a hand towel when she asked for a tissue.
The assistants who brought round the food trolleys were also not English speakers, or appeared not to be as they dumped a hot meal on her bedside food table when it clearly said Nil By Mouth on a large notice since she was awaiting her operation.
If I hadn’t been there, or she had been confused she may have eaten it all.

Please point to a post where I have said that all, or even most, people coming here on boats destroy their papers Maizie. I have only ever said that some do, because that is the case.

Well said foxie.
Personally, we came here in the early 70s. There was a demand for GPs, to work in the Valleys, because it was not glamorous enough for the British Medical Graduates. The people welcomed us with open arms. May I add, we spoke perfect English. I only mention this, because, it has been said that there is a language barrier. There’s no language barrier, just an accent barrier. And that’s easily overcome.

I love having people from all over the world around me, in the NHS & otherwise, there are many roles in hospitals they could do, not just dr nurse, and exams + supervision could prove if someone has the right skills for each job. I remember when food was meat & 2 veg & immigration has given us a lot food wise, and in many other ways. There are no safe ways for many people to arrive to us so I'd like to see an application centre in Calais so people apply there & if successful & just get the ferry here. Those coming by small boats are then presumably those that don't qualify & could be returned.

Germanshepherdsmum

I know that Maizie.

It doesn't feel as though you do, from your posts.