Migrants are keeping the NHS afloat not drowning it!

Germanshepherdsmum

Of course I don’t. But if someone has no proof of identity or qualification and their alleged country of origin has no records, or is unwilling to cooperate, just how much time and money do you suggest this country should invest in their acquisition of UK qualifications?

If someone destroys their papers or, for whatever reason, has no proof of qualifications then of course they are not able to take on any job except unskilled work.

However, if a person has the intellectual capacity to gain good qualifications in one country they don't suddenly lose that capacity because they are in another.
Of course they don't.

However, to work in a skilled job or a profession they will need to have the same qualifications as any other candidate. How to obtain those qualifications? Should they receive funding which is not available to other students?

I’m afraid that for asylum seekers there is also the additional problem of criminal record checks. People fleeing unstable or war torn countries are unlikely to be able to obtain criminal record clearance from their country of origin and in my opinion that is equally important as proof of qualifications when working with vulnerable people.

The people arriving on boats are a completely different situation than those who arrive legally to work in the NHS. Therefore they must be dealt with separately and under different rules.
I hate hearing that people who are here legally and working legally are being exposed to racism by ignorant people. Shame on them.
I was also treated and looked after by wonderful caring staff from abroad when I was in hospital with Covid, and also my mother in her care home. I had good relationships with mum’s carers, both British and foreign, and my absolute favourite was a lovely Polish girl.

nightowl

I’m afraid that for asylum seekers there is also the additional problem of criminal record checks. People fleeing unstable or war torn countries are unlikely to be able to obtain criminal record clearance from their country of origin and in my opinion that is equally important as proof of qualifications when working with vulnerable people.

About 75% of asylum seekers are granted asylum in Britain, regardless of having proper documentation, which is a far, far higher percentage than any other European country, so I think we’re doing our bit.

maddyone I’m not sure how your post applies to my comment?

fancythat

350 boat people were supposed to have arrived yesterday.
I havent worked out the math properly, but if that was every day, that works out roughly at 110,000 per year.
Quite a sizeable number.

I dont know of anyone in real life, who disagrees with people from other countries coming here to do jobs that are needed to be done in the Uk?
As was all done quite happily, pre 1995?

Unfortunately there are many who disagree with people from overseas legally working here. I live in a working class area where just about everyone voted for Brexit. Their only reason? To stop foreigners taking their jobs/homes/women (whatever the Sun newspaper had told them basically).

There was a palpable sense of triumph when the hard working, tax paying and largely integrated Polish departed despite the fact that there was little to no unemployment for locals in our area. The Polish were generally doing jobs the Brexit voters wouldn't touch with a barge pole.

There was a firm belief that Brexit would stop all immigration and that Johnny foreigner would be driven from our shores.

Sorry if I wasn’t clear nightowl, I just meant that although documents are required, if they can’t be found, it seems that migrants apply for asylum, and most will be accepted, presumably without documentation.

Thanks for the clarification maddyone, I think maybe my post wasn’t clear. I was referring to the problem of accessing full criminal record checks for asylum seekers for employment purposes, once their asylum claim is granted. I don’t understand how this can be dispensed with, as it wouldn’t be for other foreign born employees.

I believe finger prints are used for DBS purposes.

my cancer doc ,my lung doc, very famous my surgeon
all from india iwould be dead if not for them
2months i hospital.the house keeping, the Phlebotomist
bloods taken in 4-8 times a day so they know whatt they were doing, all Filipinos
worse one american i fired treated me like i was stupid

Same here dotpolka. My cancer surgeon is from India. The doctor who inserted my stent after a heart attack is German. Both my children were delivered by CS by consultants from India. The best GP I have ever had is Romanian and my current GP, who is also amazing, is Nigerian.

maddyone

Sorry if I wasn’t clear nightowl, I just meant that although documents are required, if they can’t be found, it seems that migrants apply for asylum, and most will be accepted, presumably without documentation.

About 75% of asylum seekers are granted asylum because they are genuine. I think it's important to remember that it is only when someone is actually in the country that they can claim asylum because there are few ways of doing so from another country. It is only since the govt passed a law in July 2023 that people started to be classed as "illegal migrants" before then they were just seen as asylum seekers. So called "illegal" migration is a small amount compared to those people who are here quite legally and who pay for using the NHS. There is so much misinformation that plays on people's fears, ignorance and racism.

Still nothing to do with the point I was making though foxie. It is impossible to get criminal record checks from some countries, including those in turmoil. DBS checks only check records in the UK, which obviously will be clear for people who are newly arrived.

It is routine practice for all applicants for jobs with vulnerable people to have to obtain criminal record clearance from other counties they have lived in. That includes UK born people who have lived abroad. I’m simply saying I don’t know how this can be worked around where records are impossible to obtain.

Oreo

"Regards them working here, most destroy any papers that may identify them"

What evidence to you have for this statement ?

The trouble is that a number of different issues are being discussed here.

You're both right foxie and nightowl.

According to a YouGov poll, some 45% of people believe that more immigrants come to the UK 'illegally than do legally. Only 34% believe that more come legally than illegally, The remaining 22% either think it's equal numbers of each, or don't know.

In fact, 96% of immigrants are here by legal means. 4% are 'illegal.

It's a sad example of the power of right wing media and political rhetoric and the triumph of lies over truth.

For those of you registered with X/twitter

twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1748091687539257852

That, of course, explains why any mention of "migrants" (as in the OP) rapidly becomes conflated with the issue of asylum seeking.

I would be surprised if any immigrants who have arrived here other than by lawful channels are working in professional clinical roles in the NHS.

Germanshepherdsmum

I would be surprised if any immigrants who have arrived here other than by lawful channels are working in professional clinical roles in the NHS.

I am surprised that as someone who has had a career in law albeit property is apparently unaware of the international status of asylum seekers, who are not “illegal” and only a tiny minority being found so after being process

So I would hazard a guess that there are indeed clinicians in the nhs or elsewhere who began life in the U.K. as asylum seekers, under the Tory terms “illegal” - achieved the status of refugee and built their life from there.

Germanshepherdsmum

I would be surprised if any immigrants who have arrived here other than by lawful channels are working in professional clinical roles in the NHS.

Interesting read:

www.nhsemployers.org/articles/refugee-healthcare-professionals#:~:text=Skilled%20refugees%20recruited%20into,employers%20are%20given%20sponsorship%20duties.

That’s interesting growstuff. Presumably the article is referring to refugees who can prove that they have a healthcare qualification though - which must be difficult, if not impossible, if papers have been destroyed and the country of origin does not cooperate in producing evidence of qualification.

Not all people who arrive by boat destroy their papers, GSM

I did make an official complaint, I received a reply telling me that it was being looked into but never heard back, by that time my husband had died and I had enough on my plate sorting things out.

I also saw other patients, laying on their backs, being brought food and it being left on night stands, they were not even helped up so they could eat their meals, oxygen masks had dropped from their faces so because I was there from 10 am t 11 pm, I was the one helping them with the oxygen and fetching nurses to help them eat. It was frightening.

I know that Maizie.

Primrose53

growstuff

That's one, not numerous.

That wasn’t in reply to you, it was in addition to my post.

Yes, numerous.

My son lived with a Philipino woman and she said you can buy any qualification out there on most street corners and they look totally genuine.

that's as maybe, but I can assure you that all qualifications and references are checked and confirmed. My DiL, who speaks three languages fluently, works for a company who contact previous overseas employers, training institutes, universities etc. on behalf of the NHS and others.