Katharine Birbalsingh – the head teacher of Michaela Community School.

Dickens

^What is wrong with pointing out that it's a tradition? That's not dismissive. It's a fact.^

MaizieD

It is not the factual nature of the comment I am challenging - it is the whole tone of growstuff's comments which imply that KB and those who support her stance on this are of the Right-Wing-Anti-Woke brigade.

Aaaah.

'Tone' and 'implication' are difficult concepts in discussion forums I find... Always so open to interpretation..

I admit was quite surprised to find Polly Toynbee supporting Birbalsingh's stance in the Guardian the other day. Though I think it was more because of her belief that all state schools should be secular.

What is wrong with pointing out that it's a tradition? That's not dismissive. It's a fact.

MaizieD

It is not the factual nature of the comment I am challenging - it is the whole tone of growstuff's comments which imply that KB and those who support her stance on this are of the Right-Wing-Anti-Woke brigade.

Good post Dickens The Michaela School would have suited only one of our brood of five.

growstuff is correct.

It is a hangover from Christian traditions. Only a tradition because what was essentially a bit of sophistry (fish flesh being as much 'meat' as land animal flesh) was imposed by the Roman Catholic church for centuries and perpetuated by the Anglican church, which liked to emphasise its continuity from the church of Rome.

What is wrong with pointing out that it's a tradition? That's not dismissive. It's a fact.

(Do other christian sects eat fish on Friday, too? I must ask my Jehovah's Witness and Methodist neighbours...)

Soozikinzi

People are wanting to send their children to the school obviously for the high standrards but then twist the policies to suit them . I think it's actually very important that she does win her case.

You know, children - especially those in their early 'teens' are by nature rebellious.

It's not at all impossible that some pupils find the strict discipline at the school difficult to deal with - in spite of the fact that they might be well-disciplined at home also. And Michaela really is strict and regimented (I wouldn't choose it personally but that's just a by-the-way).

Maybe the girl in question is having a real problem with the school's conduct-code and this is her way of dealing with it. She wouldn't be the first and only child to hate her school and want to destroy it.

It's just a 'thought' though on my part. I actually feel sorry for her... children that are troublesome and bully others, often are deeply unhappy.

Callistemon21

I doubt that eating fish on Fridays at Michaela School is compulsory. 🐟

There will be alternative(s).

Yes, I'm sure there are alternatives. Does any school force its pupils to eat meat or fish - there is always a vegetarian option, at least? If there are numbers of vegans, they might even offer a vegan alternative, though there is no legal obligation to put it on the menu. The requirement is "to ensure everyone has access to belief-appropriate nutritious food"

I'm also sure that Glorianny and growstuff can root around to find another stick with which to beat the school.

growstuff

It's a hangover for some from Christian traditions.

Introduced in the 16th century I believe, or maybe earlier, I haven't checked... but now quintessentially 'British'. Quite a long hangover.

All religions have their traditions don't they? We've adopted and hijacked some of them ourselves here in Britain.

Are you so dismissive of other religions - or is it just Christianity you have in your cross-hair?

Eating fish on Friday is very common here in Wigan which is a very Catholic town . The chip shops all open Friday tetive and usually have queue there's even a song I'm a working man from Lancashire and I want me chippy tea by the Lancashotpots ! Putting that asides I agree with the stanje of Mrs B and the Michaela schools keeping religion out of education as with the French schools . I certainly hope she can win this case . She made her policies clear . People are wanting to send their children to the school obviously for the high standrards but then twist the policies to suit them . I think it's actually very important that she does win her case.

My daughter eats fish occasionally so she is a pescatarian. I am astonished that there are elderly people here who did not know about the tradition of eating fish on a Friday, I grew up in Liverpool and we certainly knew of this Christian tradition. We did eat fish on Fridays and even now at 89 I have a fish dinner on Fridays but on Good Friday it is a must. I would never think of eating meat except when friends invite us to dinner.

GrannyGravy13

No idea what happened with my previous post 🤣

It's a gremlin in the system, it keeps happening to me too

Have a strong coffee!
Or some fish - it's brain food 😂

No idea what happened with my previous post 🤣

I do know several people who, whilst mainly eating a vegetarian diet and claiming to be vegetarian, will eat fish once a week to boost their protein intake.
Technically they are pescatarians

Callistemon21 of course there will be alternatives* but to acknowledge this is would nit make a good ^argument 🤦‍♀️

growstuff

Dickens

growstuff

Dickens Sorry, but I don't eat fish on Fridays and I don't know anybody who does. It's a hangover for some from Christian traditions. Why eat fish at all if the school is vegetarian? I hope there's a vegan option.

Birbalsingh's arguments are flawed.

You really don't know anyone who eats fish on a Friday? Never heard of this tradition?

OK.

I don't know why they have fish on the menu. It could be a weekly 'concession' to those who are not vegetarians.

It's not a school for vegetarians - the school is trying to make the food acceptable to all. And as nearly half of the pupils are Muslim (I'm sure the school knows which type of fish they are allowed to eat) - I'm not sure why you are condemning the menu.

Of course I've heard of the tradition. It has its roots in the Christian ban on eating meat on Fridays.

I doubt that eating fish on Fridays at Michaela School is compulsory. 🐟

There will be alternative(s).

😂

Thank you Chardy and Rosie51 for clarifying the school’s hours. Always best to use real sources don’t you think?

I expect Glorianny will be along at some point. I imagine she’s struggling with those heavy goalposts again

growstuff

tickingbird

Glad to read Glorianny has gone back to real sources rather than relying on second-hand evidence. What does the length of the school day have to do with praying?

What sources ? What second hand evidence?

I heard it from the horse’s mouth when I listened to KB’s interview. Far more accurate than any link.

Apart from Glorianny no one else has found any evidence of the school closing at 5pm. The school near me closes at 2.30 on Fridays.

What are these real sources you mention? Why is everyone else’s information second hand?

Errr! You mean that the school's published policies aren't genuine?

I'm sure Glorianny will be along soon with the link to her "real sources" that show a 5pm finish............

.........meanwhile the link that both Chardy and I have used is from the school website.

eazybee

Michaela Community School
Hours:
Thursday7:45 am–4:30 pm
Friday7:45 am–3:30 pm
SaturdayClosed
SundayClosed
Monday7:45 am–4:30 pm
Tuesday7:45 am–4:30 pm
Wednesday7:45 am–4:30 pm

From Michaela website
michaela.education/home/secondary-school-wembley/term-dates-times-of-school-day-wembley/

Start of school day :

7:55am sharp – Gates open from 7:30am

End of school day is a staggered dismissal:

Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday – 3:10pm – 3:15pm
Friday – 2:10pm – 2:15pm
The final day of every half-term is a half day

michaela.education/home/secondary-school-wembley/term-dates-times-of-school-day-wembley/

From their own website.

I've seen where I believe you got your timings eazybee, those I think are the times for when the school is open, not the actual school day. I imagine it allows for after school clubs and/or detentions.

tickingbird

^Glad to read Glorianny has gone back to real sources rather than relying on second-hand evidence. What does the length of the school day have to do with praying?^

What sources ? What second hand evidence?

I heard it from the horse’s mouth when I listened to KB’s interview. Far more accurate than any link.

Apart from Glorianny no one else has found any evidence of the school closing at 5pm. The school near me closes at 2.30 on Fridays.

What are these real sources you mention? Why is everyone else’s information second hand?

State schools finishing early on a Friday is usually due to teaching staff shortages or cutbacks in staffing. This is to allow all teachers to simultaneously have a non-contact lesson on a Friday PM (for marking/lesson prep/admin/report writing etc) rather than earlier in the week when pupils are in school. (I.e. each lesson when pupils are in school a greater percentage of teachers are teaching)

Errr! You mean that the school's published policies aren't genuine?

Closing at 5pm Monday -Thursday but closing at 2.15pm on Fridays to accommodate Jewish pupils? How strange, no one else can find that information.

Hmm these real sources you mention don’t appear very accurate.

Where are you getting your times from eazybee? Those add up to 42 and 3/4 hours a week school time!

This should have been sorted by the parents before they sent them. Then they could decide whether that school was right for their children. They then could if sent them to a particular faith school.

Michaela Community School
Hours:
Thursday7:45 am–4:30 pm
Friday7:45 am–3:30 pm
SaturdayClosed
SundayClosed
Monday7:45 am–4:30 pm
Tuesday7:45 am–4:30 pm
Wednesday7:45 am–4:30 pm

growstuff yes it is good for you

I think you will find fish is a good source of nutrients, unless you are allergic of course.

Joseann

growstuff

In any case, I doubt the judge will be interested in the menus.

Ooo I don't know!
I bet he's rather looking forward to his fish and chips in The George in The Strand tomorrow.
A sort of reward for his hard work.

It's a Judicial Review. All the judge will be interested in is whether Birbalsingh's actions were lawful and she she followed the correct procedures, including her own published policies.

GrannyGravy13

Joseann

At my GCs' school, the menu refers to it as "Fishy Friday"!
One of my best friends runs a school catering company, and fish is always proposed on the menu for Fridays.
Just search the weekly menus for schools to see.

We have had GC at four different primary schools, all have had and still do have Fishy Friday

Even the grab bags (prepared sandwich, fruit & snack) have tuna on a Friday.

Good for you!