Katharine Birbalsingh – the head teacher of Michaela Community School.

*reason

So, just supposing the school had made concessions to the girl wanting a room in which to pray. She wins and exerts her power over the school's ethos. Then, she re invests her winnings with some other religious demands in order to gain further ground, and this pattern gets repeated again and again, at ever higher levels. I can sort of see what Nicenanny means. What next? Where does it end?

I think, (opinion), KB is brave to stand steadfast in the face of such pressures, though I too agree that I wouldn't be queuing for a place there for my own children.

Caveat here ...... I understandably have a simpler less complicated perspective on this, so no need to shout my next comment down.
In private schools, parents cannot demand special concessions, religious or otherwise, for their child even though these parents might be paying the school thousands. The Headteacher will politely explain the resaon to the parents, who if they are still unhappy will be shown the door and be given the opportunity to walk away.
But the parents never do, because what matters to them above all else, is the education of their child.

Well said Dickens

Like you I also said upthread I'd not have considered Michaela for any of my children because I don't think they'd have flourished there, but hundreds of children obviously have. It's not as if anybody has been compelled to attend this school against their wishes. I do believe KB is genuine in the reason for her actions so that the school truly is inclusive and not divisive, even if some of its rules are a bit too strict for my tastes.

But if that is the case then the admissions policy should clearly state that. Church schools set out their policies. Usually, practising members of the relevant faith, then those of the faith who are baptised into it, then practising members of other religions
If the school wanted people who were not practising a religion they should say so.
It does say the main meal is vegetarian.
It doesn't say prayer isn't allowed.

Glorianny

"All Muslims look for guidance in the Qur’an and believe in the prophecy of Muhammad, but other than these two elements they show great variation."

..."with almost 2 billion members spread around the world, adding up to one of every four humans, Muslims show a great variation amongst themselves. Muslim practices vary on the basis of denomination, school of thought, national and ethnic context and religiosity."

"Muslim communities have disagreements and contradictions amongst themselves on a number of issues of principle and practice. Sometimes even slight moderation might cause Muslims to be targeted by more radical elements within the same school of interpretation. The original Islamic community under Muhammad showed great variation."

Esra Özyürek
The Sultan Qaboos Professor of Abrahamic Faiths and Shared Values and also the Director of the Cambridge Interfaith Programme at the Divinity Faculty, University of Cambridge.

Again, Muslim practices vary on the basis of denomination, school of thought, national and ethnic context and religiosity."

... can you not see that to cater for the wide variation of practices within this faith, coupled with all the other faiths whose adherents might also have their own 'variations' presents a problem for a multi-cultural school which has been raised out of an old office building with limited space; headed by a woman who wants everyone to make a personal sacrifice in the interests of the whole.

I am not advocating for KB - Michaela would not be my choice of school - I'm just attempting to point out the logic of her 'argument' in opposition to your accusations of discrimination.

But if that is the case then the admissions policy should clearly state that. Church schools set out their policies. Usually, practising members of the relevant faith, then those of the faith who are baptised into it, then practising members of other religions
If the school wanted people who were not practising a religion they should say so.
It does say the main meal is vegetarian.
It doesn't say prayer isn't allowed.

The main meal wasn't always vegetarian, that rule was brought in so that children no longer sit at tables divided by religious or cultural beliefs, and brought everyone into one inclusive group. But still Hindus have to accept the plate they eat from may have been touched by an egg. Do you think they should reinstate divisive eating practices or do Hindu beliefs and eating practices not matter?

The school does not object to pupils practicing a religion but doesn't accommodate all aspects believing inclusion and one community to be more important than divisive practices. Prayer was allowed in the playground until outside influences who objected to the lack of a prayer room (which every parent knew was lacking) started dangerous and racist attacks, up to and including bomb threats.
Why do you think so many Muslim and Hindu families want their children to attend a school that doesn't fully accommodate their religious practices? The school accommodates the cultural/religious practice of headscarves or hijabs so are not against religious pupils attending. No doubt Sikh boys can wear a patka or any Jewish boys a kippah.

You say just 30 pupils wanting a room to pray in. That grew from one or two to 30 in a very short time, partly from coercion of being a "good Muslim". What happens if that number grows to 100, 200, 350?

If you've watched any interview with KB you'd know she doesn't pull her punches. Are you really accusing her of being deceptive or worse an outright liar? I note that you haven't addressed this question nor Joseann's comment on your assertion about Heads often when talking to parents convince them that things are not as they really are

Perhaps but they are not taking this to court it is a Muslim Girl and her family supported behind the scenes by a Muslim Group (using free legal aid paid for by British taxpayers) this group who probably picked this girl because her family were eligible for legal aid and this school for maximum publicity. I hope it gets thrown out of court.

Nicenanny3

11:22Glorianny

Nicenanny3

I don't believe it's just one girl and her family taking this to court (free legal aid as well, beggars belief) I think a larger religious group are behind this hoping she wins the case and all schools will have to have a Muslim prayer room.

A prayer room doesn't have to be Muslim. It can be used by any faiths

*We've managed quite well in the UK, England where I live for years without having a prayer room in schools and the only faith I know who prays multi times a day are Muslims, we are a Christian country not a Muslim Country although under Sadiq Khan its getting there unfortunately*

Well some Jews, some Christians, some Sikhs and some of Baha'i faith can all require their followers to pray during the day. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_prayer_times

Nicenanny3

11:22Glorianny

Nicenanny3

I don't believe it's just one girl and her family taking this to court (free legal aid as well, beggars belief) I think a larger religious group are behind this hoping she wins the case and all schools will have to have a Muslim prayer room.

A prayer room doesn't have to be Muslim. It can be used by any faiths

*We've managed quite well in the UK, England where I live for years without having a prayer room in schools and the only faith I know who prays multi times a day are Muslims, we are a Christian country not a Muslim Country although under Sadiq Khan its getting there unfortunately*

Nicenanny3 !!!???

11:22Glorianny

Nicenanny3

I don't believe it's just one girl and her family taking this to court (free legal aid as well, beggars belief) I think a larger religious group are behind this hoping she wins the case and all schools will have to have a Muslim prayer room.

A prayer room doesn't have to be Muslim. It can be used by any faiths

We've managed quite well in the UK, England where I live for years without having a prayer room in schools and the only faith I know who prays multi times a day are Muslims, we are a Christian country not a Muslim Country although under Sadiq Khan its getting there unfortunately

Dickens

Rosie51

Glorianny

So what you are in fact sayings that a school with excellent results shouldn't be available to people of faith? Isn't that just as discriminatory as a school insisting only people of faith are acceptable? A Catholic school has to have policies and admittance procedures which show what criteria is used to prioritise pupils. If this school was to be purely secular then surely that should be in the admissions policy?

But it is available to all faiths and none as is shown by the varied roll call!
It is a school with excellent results and parents must decide whether they can work with its very strict rules and lack of a prayer room. The fact that 50% of its intake are Muslim seems to suggest that many Muslims don't have a problem with either the rules of lack of prayer facilities. Should the Hindu parents be able to insist their children eat separately on plates guaranteed not to have been touched by an egg? Should the Jehovah Witness parents be able to insist that Macbeth is not the set text? What about parents who would like their child's midday meal to incorporate meat protein as that is their main meal of the day?

👏👏👏

But if that is the case then the admissions policy should clearly state that. Church schools set out their policies. Usually, practising members of the relevant faith, then those of the faith who are baptised into it, then practising members of other religions
If the school wanted people who were not practising a religion they should say so.
It does say the main meal is vegetarian.
It doesn't say prayer isn't allowed.

Rosie51

Glorianny

So what you are in fact sayings that a school with excellent results shouldn't be available to people of faith? Isn't that just as discriminatory as a school insisting only people of faith are acceptable? A Catholic school has to have policies and admittance procedures which show what criteria is used to prioritise pupils. If this school was to be purely secular then surely that should be in the admissions policy?

But it is available to all faiths and none as is shown by the varied roll call!
It is a school with excellent results and parents must decide whether they can work with its very strict rules and lack of a prayer room. The fact that 50% of its intake are Muslim seems to suggest that many Muslims don't have a problem with either the rules of lack of prayer facilities. Should the Hindu parents be able to insist their children eat separately on plates guaranteed not to have been touched by an egg? Should the Jehovah Witness parents be able to insist that Macbeth is not the set text? What about parents who would like their child's midday meal to incorporate meat protein as that is their main meal of the day?

👏👏👏

Dickens

Glorianny

So what you are in fact sayings that a school with excellent results shouldn't be available to people of faith? Isn't that just as discriminatory as a school insisting only people of faith are acceptable? A Catholic school has to have policies and admittance procedures which show what criteria is used to prioritise pupils. If this school was to be purely secular then surely that should be in the admissions policy?

You do have a penchant for telling people what you think they are saying instead of directly dealing with the premise or question posed.

That was so politely put, Dickens! 😃

Glorianny

So what you are in fact sayings that a school with excellent results shouldn't be available to people of faith? Isn't that just as discriminatory as a school insisting only people of faith are acceptable? A Catholic school has to have policies and admittance procedures which show what criteria is used to prioritise pupils. If this school was to be purely secular then surely that should be in the admissions policy?

You do have a penchant for telling people what you think they are saying instead of directly dealing with the premise or question posed.

Joseann

^Heads often when talking to parents convince them that things are not as they really are.^
Well that is appalling, and would make any contract null and void. I don't know any Head who would dare to in my experience.

I don't know any Head who would dare to in my experience. Glorianny obviously does, or is it possible she was that head?

Glorianny

Heads often when talking to parents convince them that things are not as they really are. So parents might have imagined they were the only ones interested in prayer , then they realised there were more. So they asked for space.
If 30 children wanted to play chess would they have been denied space to do so?

If you've watched any interview with KB you'd know she doesn't pull her punches. Are you really accusing her of being deceptive or worse an outright liar?

For 8 years nobody made a fuss about the lack of the prayer room, and more and more Muslim children enrolled, knowing there weren't prayer facilities. These parents must have regarded the strict ethos and results of the school as overriding that.

If 30 children wanted a sewing club, another 30 wanted a Dungeons and Dragons club, yet a different 30 wanted a modelling club, while there were 40 that wanted a bridge club, will they all be allocated space in the non existent spare rooms?

Heads often when talking to parents convince them that things are not as they really are.
Well that is appalling, and would make any contract null and void. I don't know any Head who would dare to in my experience.

Glorianny

So what you are in fact sayings that a school with excellent results shouldn't be available to people of faith? Isn't that just as discriminatory as a school insisting only people of faith are acceptable? A Catholic school has to have policies and admittance procedures which show what criteria is used to prioritise pupils. If this school was to be purely secular then surely that should be in the admissions policy?

But it is available to all faiths and none as is shown by the varied roll call!
It is a school with excellent results and parents must decide whether they can work with its very strict rules and lack of a prayer room. The fact that 50% of its intake are Muslim seems to suggest that many Muslims don't have a problem with either the rules of lack of prayer facilities. Should the Hindu parents be able to insist their children eat separately on plates guaranteed not to have been touched by an egg? Should the Jehovah Witness parents be able to insist that Macbeth is not the set text? What about parents who would like their child's midday meal to incorporate meat protein as that is their main meal of the day?

Heads often when talking to parents convince them that things are not as they really are. So parents might have imagined they were the only ones interested in prayer , then they realised there were more. So they asked for space.
If 30 children wanted to play chess would they have been denied space to do so?

*human

I believe, (no time to check), that the KC representing the school is not an educational lawyer, but a specialist lawyer in hunan rights. To my mind that means that this issue goes way beyond just classroom management and individual pupil behaviour.

Same thoughts here, Dickens. Was it not a bit remiss of the parents not to really quiz the Headmistress on this issue at the point they signed up to the school? If it was so important to the parents and to the child, I would have thought that questions would have been raised and discussed. We don't know what is said at each interview, but I would imagine KB is pretty clear and dictatorial in her dealings with parents. I doubt she would be in any way woolly about answering questions. Sometimes parents hear what they want to hear and nod to get their child into a school, then later get grumpy when they don’t get their way.

So what you are in fact sayings that a school with excellent results shouldn't be available to people of faith? Isn't that just as discriminatory as a school insisting only people of faith are acceptable? A Catholic school has to have policies and admittance procedures which show what criteria is used to prioritise pupils. If this school was to be purely secular then surely that should be in the admissions policy?

growstuff

Rosie51

Michaela school is rather different to most other schools, it was not purpose built. It's a repurposed office block, 7 floors I think, with small rooms and narrow corridors.
It might have ended with 30 pupils praying in the playground but started with 1 or 2 who then recruited more. They could have continued praying in the playground (which incidentally isn't the classic school playground, by virtue of being designed as an office block) if there hadn't been complaints and subsequent violence and threats from those outside the school who objected to the lack of a prayer room.
I still have never had an answer to why, if prayer is essential to you, you knowingly apply for and accept a place at the (probably) only school in the area that doesn't have a prayer room?

Why weren't the police involved if there were threats from outside the school?

Are you sure the parents knowingly applied for a school which wouldn't allow their children to pray?

Are you sure the parents knowingly applied for a school which wouldn't allow their children to pray?

Equally, were the parents not aware of the reputation of the school and its policies regarding religion and multi-culturalism?

If the Muslim ritual of prayer is so important to parents, would this not be one of the guiding principles of their choice of school? Or any parents of any faith, come to that?

The question cannot be brushed aside or ignored. The school has a country-wide reputation because of its approach to multi-faith education and its strict discipline; surely those within its locale are aware of it? Don't all parents thoroughly investigate the schools on their list before making a choice?

If I was devout in my religious beliefs - Michaela would be my last choice. In fact, it wouldn't even be an option.

growstuff

I don't think any parents are that thorough when they apply for a school. It would never have occurred to me to ask whether my child was permitted to pray quietly for a few minutes during the lunch break.

The school and governors should have dealt with the people making threats and being violent, not the pupils involved.

The school and governors should deal with anonymous people making bomb threats, racist threats, emails and attacking one staff member's flat? Are you serious?

The children were permitted to pray quietly in the playground, for 8 years but it would appear few if any did. The absence of a prayer room is made clear to all parents, as are the strict rules on which the school operates.
If prayer is essential to you and your children's lives I'd think you'd make sure that was going to be accommodated by the school. If sporting excellence was central to your child you'd surely ensure the school had good sporting facilities, or science facilities if that was important to you.

I know what she's said. Is that from hearing her speak or second-hand from other sources?

Rosie51

growstuff have you watched or read any of the interviews that KB has given? They really are very informative.

I know what she's said.