Katharine Birbalsingh – the head teacher of Michaela Community School.

GrannyGravy13

Callistemon21

CoolCoco

No school in this country is strictly secular since they all are supposed to teach RE. according to the national curriculum. These pupils aren’t asking for Muslim education btw. The demands aren’t coming from the parents but from the pupils themselves.

Are they not supposed to teach comparative religions dispassionately?
That is quite different from praying.

Yes they do, our AC and GC have had to study various religions from around the world, and discuss the differences.

This can be done without having to pander to different religious practices, praying etc.

Yes, one of our DGC is studying this for GCSE.
It involves far more than religions, I think.

If people on here want to go down the strictly secular route that France has taken there would be no RE in school, no state occasions in a cathedral, certainly the head of state would not be crowned in a religious ceremony and he wouldn’t be head of the Church of England. A lot more would have to go. That would suit me - do away with a monarch and the House of Lords altogether is the logical next step.

But it allegedly caused issues in this particular school. I am not sure how I feel on this issue to be honest, it looks to me as if the process in making this decision wasnt great, and I am very wary as a rule of what I see as charismatic leaders, but this schools results are better than any I am aware of who take a very different approach to rules, behaviour etc. This does not mean I think she should have carte blanche to do what she likes.

It’s not in lesson time though it was for break time and why shouldn’t there be a faith room for any faith to use
I doubt it would be used much by British kids
Your school sounds nice Coolcoco and as it should be
Choice

I agree that lessons cannot be disrupted to allow pupils to pray, but they do not have to be, as both Muslims and Jews have a large window of time to say their three daily prayers (Jews and Shi'ïa Muslims) or five daily prayers (Sunni Muslims). As far as I remember Buddhists and Hindus are not tied down to specific times for prayers, nor are Orthodox Jewesses, it is only the men who have to stick to the right hours of the day. Catholics should say the Angelus three times a day, one being around middday.

I have no objection to prayer rooms in schools or places of work, as long as it is clearly understood that they are for the benefit of anyone -of any religion to use when they want.

Unfortunately, it is often seen as a Muslim requirement, which is should not be. We have freedom of conscience, which must and should mean the right to practise one's religion actively, both at work, at school and at home.

So what about small scale faiths with few members who couldn't afford to build their own school? Where would those children go?

The school I worked in has a space which can be used for all faiths in lunchtime. No one is offended by it. It’s not pandering to anyone, anymore than having a board games club is pandering to kids who like board games.

Callistemon21

CoolCoco

No school in this country is strictly secular since they all are supposed to teach RE. according to the national curriculum. These pupils aren’t asking for Muslim education btw. The demands aren’t coming from the parents but from the pupils themselves.

Are they not supposed to teach comparative religions dispassionately?
That is quite different from praying.

Yes they do, our AC and GC have had to study various religions from around the world, and discuss the differences.

This can be done without having to pander to different religious practices, praying etc.

Glorianny

GrannyGravy13

I think all schools other than dedicated faith schools should be secular, no pandering to any religious beliefs.

If you want your child to be able to pray and be educated in a faith appropriate manner, send them to a faith school.

So you wouldn't permit Jewish children to leave early n a Friday?

No

Callistemon that’s it exactly.

CoolCoco

No school in this country is strictly secular since they all are supposed to teach RE. according to the national curriculum. These pupils aren’t asking for Muslim education btw. The demands aren’t coming from the parents but from the pupils themselves.

Are they not supposed to teach comparative religions dispassionately?
That is quite different from praying.

Glorianny

GrannyGravy13

I think all schools other than dedicated faith schools should be secular, no pandering to any religious beliefs.

If you want your child to be able to pray and be educated in a faith appropriate manner, send them to a faith school.

So you wouldn't permit Jewish children to leave early n a Friday?

I wouldn’t if it were up to me.Secular schools should stick to being secular. No religion getting favours.

Ali23

I have just finished reading this book, by sheer coincidence. It’s fiction, but brilliantly written by a Muslim author. I would have answered this OP differently before reading it.
Now I think that the head’s answer could well be to develop a multi faith room for use at specific times.
They have them in hospitals. Why not in schools?

Because in hospitals people often are in desperate need of a quiet, contemplative place to go and pray, think, be at peace especially if they have a seriously ill relative in there or have just been bereaved.

If parents insist on their child being allowed to pray at school there is a choice, in this country, of enrolling them in a faith school.
Whether that is right or whether all schools should be secular as in France, is debatable.

Michaela Community School is a non-faith school and parents have the choice to apply there or not.
They can take their children to religious services, to religious instruction in their own time if they wish.

No school in this country is strictly secular since they all are supposed to teach RE. according to the national curriculum. These pupils aren’t asking for Muslim education btw. The demands aren’t coming from the parents but from the pupils themselves.

Anniel

This school is secular. All parents know that. They abandoned serving meat because it was divisive. The children eat vegetarian now to stop any separation.This school is the number one school for its results and it has a huge waiting list.Any parent who does not believe in secularism should find a school that observes their religion. I am so angry that this amazing school is under fire from one of its students. I have links to articles about this divisive action ifrom the DT and the Spectator and this is an attempt to change the whole ethos of this school. I attended a CofE Grammar school and Jewish girls stayed together reading and working during our morning prayers. But this girl is taking the school to court so Muslins can pray during school breaks.It is divisive and the school is secular so no lessons on religion and if a parent objects then the student leaves. This case is the thin end of the wedge. You may not have read it but a state school in east London was forced to close down because a Muslim student had a support Palestine motiv sewn into his school blazer and refused to remove it. Now a bomb has been sent to this school and it may close permanently. If the Michaela school loses this case it will be disastrous for its future. The parents knew when their daughter was enrolled that it is a wholly secular school so their case is spurious.

Glad you wrote this, I was just going to say much the same.
Is this a lone protest by the pupil, or the parents, or the start of an organised push to make the school observe the Muslim faith in a practical way when it’s a secular state school?Either way it needs stamping on.

GrannyGravy13

I think all schools other than dedicated faith schools should be secular, no pandering to any religious beliefs.

If you want your child to be able to pray and be educated in a faith appropriate manner, send them to a faith school.

So you wouldn't permit Jewish children to leave early n a Friday?

I think all schools other than dedicated faith schools should be secular, no pandering to any religious beliefs.

If you want your child to be able to pray and be educated in a faith appropriate manner, send them to a faith school.

I remember when I was at school Jewish children leaving early on a Friday in the winter so they were home before sunset. It didn't seem to do them any harm.
I don't think the Muslim children were asking to be excused, they were praying at playtime.
Of course any intimidation should be clamped down on, but I can't see that this religious harassment is different to any other form of bullying. Identify the children doing it, tell them it is unacceptable and discipline them if they don't stop, Discipline is something she is supposed to be well known for,

It’s only during the winter months that prayer time would be during school times. They have multi faith rooms in many places - hospitals, airports and many secular schools have them You know teenagers like to rebel against authority so to be told they can’t do something is guaranteed to make some of them try to do it. It would be better to allow those who wanted to pray at lunchtime to have a separate space to do it and they then can’t antagonise anyone else. I worked in a school where a Christian group had lunchtime meetings in a classroom and no one minded , there were lots of different non religious clubs and societies for kids to join if they didn’t want to hang out in. The playground. I ran one where we organised charity fundraising.

The parents know full well before they send their children to this excellent school that the rules are strict.
Quite simply they should remove their child if they don’t like it.
A child is now taking the head to court, they have managed to secure legal aid.

This school is secular. All parents know that. They abandoned serving meat because it was divisive. The children eat vegetarian now to stop any separation.This school is the number one school for its results and it has a huge waiting list.Any parent who does not believe in secularism should find a school that observes their religion. I am so angry that this amazing school is under fire from one of its students. I have links to articles about this divisive action ifrom the DT and the Spectator and this is an attempt to change the whole ethos of this school. I attended a CofE Grammar school and Jewish girls stayed together reading and working during our morning prayers. But this girl is taking the school to court so Muslins can pray during school breaks.It is divisive and the school is secular so no lessons on religion and if a parent objects then the student leaves. This case is the thin end of the wedge. You may not have read it but a state school in east London was forced to close down because a Muslim student had a support Palestine motiv sewn into his school blazer and refused to remove it. Now a bomb has been sent to this school and it may close permanently. If the Michaela school loses this case it will be disastrous for its future. The parents knew when their daughter was enrolled that it is a wholly secular school so their case is spurious.

I agree with Urmstongran that parents should sign consent to agree to the ethos of the school and also to abide by decisions made by the head teacher.

I see nothing wrong in having a faith room , that children of any religion may use if they wish. However I think the Muslim faith demands prayer at set times during the day, does this interfere with a child's learning, would he/ she want to leave a lesson to go and pray ? If this is the case then schools have a dilemma. Should a school be sympathetic to the demands of a religious faith? It is a question I can't answer. We live in a multi faith society and I do know what the answer is. It is a very sensitive area !!

Maybe Ali23 because the Head knows that coercion will happen between pupils. “My dad says you don’t pray enough and so you’re not a good Muslim”.

The thin end of a very large wedge….

Seems GG13 they liked the curriculum then decided to try their hand at demanding a prayer room - knowing of course from the outset that this wasn’t on offer.