Katharine Birbalsingh – the head teacher of Michaela Community School.

I have just finished reading this book, by sheer coincidence. It’s fiction, but brilliantly written by a Muslim author. I would have answered this OP differently before reading it.
Now I think that the head’s answer could well be to develop a multi faith room for use at specific times.
They have them in hospitals. Why not in schools?

Urmstongran

There is a huge waiting list for those hoping to join this school. Perhaps before admission, parents should have been asked to sign consent to agree with the ethos of the school, thus averting this kind of othering.

Totally agree 👍

growstuff

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2

So if a room isn’t allowed what would the heads attitude to those pupils who pray during their break in the playground etc?

Like I said upthread, if these pupils are from a strict Islamic household, it would be better for them to go to one of the many Islamic schools which exist, rather than make an issue out of their prayer routine.

Maybe they don't want the curriculum of an Islamic school. They just want to pray.

When applying for entrance into senior schools, all schools in my area have glossy brochures with in-depth details of both the curriculum, rules and uniform requirements along with details of the pastoral care and the overall ethos of the school.

Why would any parent, whatever religion enrol their child in a school and then want to change the rules, it doesn’t make sense.

There is a huge waiting list for those hoping to join this school. Perhaps before admission, parents should have been asked to sign consent to agree with the ethos of the school, thus averting this kind of othering.

It seems to be a problem that has been sorted out in some schools and authorities. The best idea seems to be to provide some sort of space but make this available to different faiths and not exclusively Muslim, perhaps with set times for each. I wonder why she didn't take this attitude
www.newham.gov.uk/downloads/file/6558/religious-education-prayer-room-advice-2023#:~:text=If%20this%20is%20the%20case,reflection%20space%20within%20the%20school.

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2

So if a room isn’t allowed what would the heads attitude to those pupils who pray during their break in the playground etc?

Like I said upthread, if these pupils are from a strict Islamic household, it would be better for them to go to one of the many Islamic schools which exist, rather than make an issue out of their prayer routine.

Maybe they don't want the curriculum of an Islamic school. They just want to pray.

Am I wrong in thinking female Muslims are not called to prayer at set times during the day? Just males? And even maybe of a certain age only? I must look this up. I’m ignorant of the facts.

Whitewavemark2

So if a room isn’t allowed what would the heads attitude to those pupils who pray during their break in the playground etc?

The case isn't about a prayer room but about a total ban on prayers on school premises including the playground.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/michaela-community-school-katharine-birbalsingh-muslim-high-court-london-b2480066.html

AGAA4

If a room is allocated for one religion to pray then rooms have to be allocated to all religions. I agree with the head teacher and this should not be allowed.

About 15 years ago, I worked in a bog standard comprehensive secondary school which had a faith room, which pupils could use at lunchtimes. I never went in, but I understand it was well-used by Christian pupils who just wanted space and peace to reflect. I don't ever remember anybody objecting.

Whitewavemark2

So if a room isn’t allowed what would the heads attitude to those pupils who pray during their break in the playground etc?

Like I said upthread, if these pupils are from a strict Islamic household, it would be better for them to go to one of the many Islamic schools which exist, rather than make an issue out of their prayer routine.

I think the assumption is that the heads would not know, nor would anyone else because it would be private. The case was hypothetical to counter the argument about special rooms being needed.

I'm just repeating what I read. Entirely support the OP.

So if a room isn’t allowed what would the heads attitude to those pupils who pray during their break in the playground etc?

Wholly agree with OP.

The point was raised apparently that only the muslim religion requires its followers to pray in a certain structured way e.g requiring a special mat, whereas followers of other religions can just find a quiet corner and close their eyes.

Those of us that attended a Cof E school prayed in the morning, at assembly. No prayer rooms at all, and in non of my children's schools either. That's stopped now I believe due to secular pressure.
I believe that teachers and other pupils were harrassed, racially abused by muslim parents. Hence prayers cancelled.
This should not be allowed, go to shool to learn, not to pray, and not on school premises in the playground, where it stops other pupils having a relaxing time away from lessons.
Why do they always want
to force their religion on a secular school.

So, the children are praying in their free time? So, if that is what they are doing, would it not be better to allow both them privacy and other children not feeling uncomfortable if the Muslim children are praying?

I’m not at the moment taking a stance with this but need to explore it more.

What about freedom of religious expression?

Muslim pupils who were not praying faced intimidation from other Muslim pupils

That sentence is worrying, any pupil intimidation should be swiftly stopped.

Whitewavemark2

GrannyGravy13

If you want your children to interrupt lessons/lunch/break time to pray in my opinion they should send them to a faith based school.

Did they though? What if they wanted to pray during their break?

We haven’t established that have we?

I included break time and lunchtime along with lesson time in my post Whitewavemark2

I am not aware of any U.K. schools other than faith schools having a separate prayer room.

Muslim pupils who were not praying faced intimidation from other Muslim pupils."

That sentence says a lot about the guidance these pupils were receiving from their parents.

Keep it out of state schools thank you very much.

If a room is allocated for one religion to pray then rooms have to be allocated to all religions. I agree with the head teacher and this should not be allowed.

GrannyGravy13

If you want your children to interrupt lessons/lunch/break time to pray in my opinion they should send them to a faith based school.

Did they though? What if they wanted to pray during their break?

We haven’t established that have we?

Whitewavemark2

So when do the children want to pray?

During breaks in the playground, according to reports.

A pupil taking Katharine Birbalsingh to the High Court for imposing a prayer ban at a London state school is using public money to fund the case.

The Muslim pupil, who cannot be named, has secured legal aid for the judicial review into the prayer policy at Michaela Community School in Brent.

The bill for the case so far is estimated at between £100,000 and £150,000, The Times reported.

You are right of course Galaxy. More complex than my OP but the premis still stands. Apologies though.
Anyway - all contributions gratefully received to encourage discussion!

If you want your children to interrupt lessons/lunch/break time to pray in my opinion they should send them to a faith based school.

I think it's more complex than that isnt it. Didnt she state it had to be stopped as the teachers were being threatened? I am not sure I have quite got that right but there are a range of complex counter claims I think.