The tragedy of steel making at Port Talbot

MaizieD

Casdon

He has done Anniebach, he has visited Port Talbot, and Labour do have a plan.
www.energylivenews.com/2023/10/23/labour-pledges-3bn-investment-for-green-steel/

Does that plan for 'green steel' include smelting steel from scratch, or is it just the recycling that the electric arc furnaces do, I wonder.

Yes, that’s why the union supported the proposals as I understand it, they haven’t been happy with the government proposal for recycled steel only.

Casdon

He has done Anniebach, he has visited Port Talbot, and Labour do have a plan.
www.energylivenews.com/2023/10/23/labour-pledges-3bn-investment-for-green-steel/

Does that plan for 'green steel' include smelting steel from scratch, or is it just the recycling that the electric arc furnaces do, I wonder.

I meant Corbyn who went on holiday during the leaders debate

He has done Anniebach, he has visited Port Talbot, and Labour do have a plan.
www.energylivenews.com/2023/10/23/labour-pledges-3bn-investment-for-green-steel/

If only the leader of the Labour Party had spoken out

Never forget the lies

All good and well going over to the electric type furnaces. Tgere have been questions about how these furnaces will be powered given the lack of power production/distribution. Massive power plants will need to be built to cope.

2010 , Nick Clegg became deputy prime minister

Without considering my self to be on the left wing of politics, I can, having .lived through all of the post war years, I now find myself so much in support of nationalisation - of the water, electricity, gas, railways, public transport,

I can even see the sense of having a national community fund as they have in Norway.

This country is so much poorer than it was in 2010.

Why?

But, you see, sewingnan, Tata steel isn't British owned. Its Indian owner won't be bothered about the UK's inability to produce virgin steel (the new, electric blast furnaces are steel recyclers). All they're bothered about is profitability, which the increased export costs, resulting from Brexit, have reduced.

And no tory government, from Thatcher onwards, would dream of nationalising a British industry, however strategically sound that would be.

I’ve read quite a few of the comments. I think it very short sighted to close such an essential facility. The quality of the steel is important too as is the trail of production to guarantee that quality. Buying from abroad is just shifting the carbon footprint and increasing it. The loss of jobs and skills vital to an independent UK . Brexit blamed - I am confused, many consider ensuring our own ability to be as self sufficient as possible a priority. An opportunity scuppered not by the will of the ordinary folk but by those with short term agendas.

Anniebach

The question of why Wales voted to leave the EU can in large part be answered by the number of English retired people who have moved across the border, research has found.

Despite being one of the biggest beneficiaries of EU funding, Wales voted leave by a majority of 52% to 48% in the 2016 referendum – a result that took some analysts by surprise. However, work by Danny Dorling, a professor of geography at Oxford, found that the result could in part be attributed to the influence of English voters.

“If you look at the more genuinely Welsh areas, especially the Welsh-speaking ones, they did not want to leave the EU,” Dorling told the Sunday Times. “Wales was made to look like a Brexit-supporting nation by its English settlers.”

Darling's research results are rather flawed imo.

In fact, the influx of people from England into Wales has been fuelled by cheaper house prices in Wales which has encouraged many young working couples and families to move to Wales from England. Border areas are within easy commuting distance of large English cities and towns. Areas near the two Severn bridges, where people could commute to England, voted remain (apart from Newport).
The whole central belt, some deprived ex-mining areas, other farming areas, voted Leave.

Other areas where retirees might have moved to, eg coast and pleasant rural areas, appear to have voted remain.

The vote overall was fairly close although in some areas eg Blaneau Gwent, it was decisively Leave.
In 2016, the year of the referendum, estimates put the unemployment rate in Blaenau Gwent at 6.6%, having been at 9.2% the previous year, and as high as 15.5% in 2011, almost double the UK average.
Based on estimates from 2020, the unemployment level is now around 4.3%, marginally higher than the Welsh average of 3.7%, but below the UK average of 4.5%.
Wales online July 2021

Around 1,300 people aged 16 and over in Blaenau Gwent were unemployed in the year ending June 2023. This is a rate of 3.9%. That is lower than the UK average.
9 Nov 2023

Anniebach I live in Wrexham and was dismayed by the area voting Leave, especially as the region had benefited greatly from being in the EU.
What truly rattled me was the sheer unfettered xenophobic malice shown to the Polish/Eastern European and Portuguese sizable community we have here. It was disgusting and I was ashamed. I know this as I actively campaigned to Remain.

PhilJaz

The main cause of Port Talbot steel making going is due to the left/green agenda forcing the UK to go towards the totally unaffordable and unattainable net zero.

I'm sure that when your grandchildren are inhabiting an increasingly uninhabitable planet they'll be very proud of your steadfast resistance to net zero...

I know people will hate me for saying so, but deprived areas tended to vote leave, UK wide.

Why should they hate you, Casdon. It's a fact. It was no good lauding the economic benefits of being in the EU when deprived areas were not only suffering from the effects of Cameron and Osborne's dreadful austerity, but many hadn't recovered from Thatcher's assault on heavy industry in the '80s.

But Sunderland, FGS!😱 That one really baffled me. Poster area for the benefits of the Single Market. They've been incredibly luck not to lose Nissan, though I feel that is mainly due to the lavish donations to Nissan of the fruit of the Magic Money Tree by subsequent tory PMs.

The main cause of Port Talbot steel making going is due to the left/green agenda forcing the UK to go towards the totally unaffordable and unattainable net zero.

I don't know who or what Quora is, but I found the quote offensive.

I’m not convinced Anniebach. Only four areas of Wales voted to remain, Cardiff, Monmouthshire, Vale of Glamorgan, and Gwynedd. Only one is a Welsh speaking area, and the four areas are amongst the highest immigration areas for English retirees. It was a decisive leave vote in NPT, where there are less English retirees I would imagine - I know Blaenau Gwent was very much in the leave camp, and there are very few English retirees there, they head for the leafy shires, not the industrial areas. I know people will hate me for saying so, but deprived areas tended to vote leave, UK wide.

The question of why Wales voted to leave the EU can in large part be answered by the number of English retired people who have moved across the border, research has found.

Despite being one of the biggest beneficiaries of EU funding, Wales voted leave by a majority of 52% to 48% in the 2016 referendum – a result that took some analysts by surprise. However, work by Danny Dorling, a professor of geography at Oxford, found that the result could in part be attributed to the influence of English voters.

“If you look at the more genuinely Welsh areas, especially the Welsh-speaking ones, they did not want to leave the EU,” Dorling told the Sunday Times. “Wales was made to look like a Brexit-supporting nation by its English settlers.”

I fell very sorry for any hardworking person who lose their jobs through no fault of their own.
Why did Wales vote to leave the EU considering the.huge amount of funding they received?

And the then leader of the Labour Party was not for remain

Against the emotional tactics used by the Brexiteers - appeals to sovereignty and all that nonsense - the rational/factual case made by Remainders was overwhelmed. The damage has been done and it has to be repaired and mitigated over the coming years.

62Granny

Like a lot of people , the people of Port Talbot succumbed to the lies about Brexit, but I can never understand how these were believed by such a large group of the community, but there was very little canvassing by the Remain , the area has a rich history in voting Labour and has a very good MP. In Stephen Kinnock, and has always been multi cultural. Unfortunately the people believed that their vote was about keeping industry and jobs .
It will be a big knock back to the town but hopefully it will rise from the ashes again one day.

I don’t think that many of the mining towns have risen from the ashes. Still, maybe this time the government will plough money into the area and find ways of introducing new industry to it ( but I’m not holding my breath about that)

Like a lot of people , the people of Port Talbot succumbed to the lies about Brexit, but I can never understand how these were believed by such a large group of the community, but there was very little canvassing by the Remain , the area has a rich history in voting Labour and has a very good MP. In Stephen Kinnock, and has always been multi cultural. Unfortunately the people believed that their vote was about keeping industry and jobs .
It will be a big knock back to the town but hopefully it will rise from the ashes again one day.

varian

That was a quotation from Quora as you can see.

My title using the word "tragedy" is my take on this.

I understand that we need to cut carbon emissions, but the prudent course would have been to retain one of the two blast furnaces.

Unfortunately this Brexit-Con government has demonstrated time and time again that it does not give a toss for the ordinary working folk who were conned into voting Leave.

They are squandering £500,000 of our money on making thousands redundant.a

But people can't see that it was a quote from Quora, varian. Putting it in italics or bold might have saved you some unfair criticism.

To be fair to the steelworkers, though, that nice Mr Farage told them that remaining in the EU would end the steel industry in the UK. But it could well be that the added export cost caused by EU trade barriers post Brexit has played a part in Tata's decision to close down both furnaces rather than phasing them out over time.