Sentence for Nottingham killer?

Psychiatric illness is still poorly understood despite years of research. Diagnosis is a blunt instrument, individuals’ diagnoses are changed over the course of their lives, so that some people have a medical record which includes almost every diagnosis there is at different times. Medication only controls and dulls the symptoms, if does not work in exactly the same way as medication for physical illnesses. I think hoping for a ‘cure’ for something like schizophrenia is unrealistic. Of course, most people with that diagnosis may hopefully find that a holistic approach including different medical and psychological treatments will enable them to manage and live with their condition and achieve a positive life.

I think that this man is undoubtedly mentally very unwell, but it is very unusual (thankfully) for those experiencing psychiatric disorders to exhibit violence and certainly at this horrific level. I do not believe any psychiatrist, however eminent, will ever be able to say that he is safe to be released. The Judge has imposed a Section 41 restriction that means he cannot be released on the say-so of a psychiatrist but must be referred to the Secretary of State for Justice. The reasons for not imposing a ‘hybrid’ Prison Order are set out in the judgement and are convincing - but I fully understand the families’ concerns about the potential risks and their feeling that they have been let down. This horrific event was heartbreaking, and terrifying. My son lives a few hundred yards from where it happened; there but for for the Grace of God.

I hope the Attorney General and, if necessary, the Court of Appeal will consider the referral carefully. The Judge in the case has heard all the evidence which we have not.

My closest friend has a form of schizophrenia, her voices are directed against herself not others. I have over the years heard lots of theories, none of which seemed particularly helpful.

I am more interested to know what research is under way and government funded to find the reasons for schizophrenia and to find a cure. I think oxygen deprivation at birth may be one factor.

I would however be interested in the statistics on murders by men with schizophrenia and women with schizophrenia . I wonder if there is a difference.

If he should be cured whilst in prison he would no longer be a danger to the public. He committed the killings because of his illness. However the experts said that his form of mental illness was not curable, hence the judge said he would probably spend the rest of his life in prison. But of course a cure may be found in the years to come. This case is not comparable with multiple murders committed by someone who was not suffering from this illness. So no, WonderfulLife, therein does not lie the problem - or you would be sentencing someone to incarceration for life for being ill.

The word he would 'probably' stay in a mental hospital for the rest of his life, does not mean he will and there lies the problem.

eazybee I think the problem is the way the law is worded, in actuality the chances of him ever being released are infinitismally small. Possibly the wording of these sentences needs to be re thought, or they could be worded so that he is given a prison sentence but ordered to spend it in a psychiatric hospita until deemed fit to be sent to anormal prison. White a number of high profile prisoners, like Peter Sutcliffe, one of the Kra brothers and, I think, Ian Brady, spent their sentences variously in prison and in criminal psychiatric hospitals.

He was someone with a history of mental illness. It is not a case that he only claimed later that he was hearing voices. He had been in contact with the mental health authorities a number of times and been sectioned several times in the years running up to this attack We know the reason he was not taking hs medication was because he knew that the voices he was hearing were real and therefore he did not need medication.

Of course he has not expressed remorse, because he is very severely mentally ill and is incapable of understanding that what he is done is so heinous. He was doing what his voices told him to do.

The young boy is grief stricken , why use his words , should a 17 year old grasp the law ?

Bloody hell that's twice on GN that people have admitted to not getting thing s quite right today, thats unheard of on the internet.
I thought notspaghettis response was very gracious annie.
I hope I do as well if I phrase things in a way that could be misinterpreted.
The sentence is being reviewed by the way.

A grieving brother didn’t grasp the law , shocking

eazybee and Anniebach I was not, and would not mock anyone bereaved. I said I would be devastated to have to live with this pain. No one should have to.

I am sorry you read this as mocking.

My point (which was obviously badly put if you have both read it as mocking) was that so many people seem not to grasp that the laws here are written so that people can do terrible things but still be very very ill.
Not everyone has an understanding of mental ill health inspite of quite a lot being written or spoken of it.

As I said, the courts are tasked with trying to understand the mental capacity of the perpetrator.

That's all.

Anniebach

Shouty people ? Anyone who you disagree with, the families of the victims?

No. The ones who were angry and shouting!
Everyone has an opinion and entitled to have one.

I was upset by the mocking of the young brother

Absolutely right. We do not understand.

We do not understand that a man who has slaughtered three people in cold blood, premeditated, unprovoked, who then attempted to murder three more, who refused to answer any question other than 'no comment', but then claimed at a later date to have heard voices telling him to kill people,who never expressed a shred of remorse, is deemed guilty of manslaughter not murder and will 'probably ', not definitely, be detained for life. Is it it right that this person, should he recover his mental health, ever be released ever into the community? After what he has done?
We, the public, expect protection but our concerns are negated by squabbles over the letter of the law, for the protection of this evil man.

And the brother of one of the victims is mocked for saying "he looked ok" in the video recording in that he didn't have a trouser leg rolled up (i think that's what he said) and "knew what he was doing".
If the words of someone in deep distress are to be criticized, at least have the decency to find out exactly what they were.

As was said, these murdered people did not lose their lives, they were taken from them.

That’s the one. Thank you. I kept googling Zecko.

Jayne Zito.

Didn’t something change years ago when it came to paranoid schizophrenics? A man was murdered and his wife campaigned for something to be done. I’m sure it was when mental hospitals were being closed and mentally ill people were going to be cared for in the community. The poor woman whose husband died must be horrified every time this happens again.

People who say it should have been a murder charge don’t know what they are talking about. He would very probably have been acquitted of murder due to his mental health condition. That would mean he would have been free, remaining within the community until the next time. They really have no idea.

Shouty people ? Anyone who you disagree with, the families of the victims?

I listened to (some of) two different radio phone-ins about this case today.

SO many who said it should have been a murder charge. The presenters have explained again and again but still there's too many "shouty" people out there who just don't want to try to get their heads around it.

A brother of the dead young woman said something like "he looked ok" in the video recording in that he didn't have a trouser leg rolled up (i think that's what he said) and "knew what he was doing".

I do know and fully accept that I'd be devastated if it was one of my family 💔 ... but we do have laws - and at least the courts try to understand the mental capacity of the perpetrator...

No winners here as far as I can see. Both the families of the victims and the killer have to live with it - and so does the perpetrator when/if he is lucid.

It depends on the type of schizophrenia from what I picked up when watching the sentencing. This man refuses to believe that there is anything wrong with him, which is probably part of his particular problem, and therefore won’t take his medication voluntarily. Apparently he was still hearing voices whilst medicated and being observed by the experts who gave testimony. The same voices which told him to kill his victims or his family would be killed.

But there is no cure for schizophrenia? It needs to be managed by antipsychotics. These can be given by injection. Of course this is a simple view and there may be a number of complications we don’t understand in this case.

The experts - and a case like this will be dealt with by experts - are not daft. They considered his particular problem to be incurable. He is not violent when taking his medication, which he will have to do in hospital, but we know that left to his own devices he would not, so he would become violent again. Many of us have to take medication for life and we understand that we must do so. He doesn’t and as he can’t be cured it is likely, as the judge said, that he will never be released.

cc there’s always the option of administering medication by injection so that there’s firm medical supervision.