After the Post Office scandal, do you feel safe with a DWP "police force"?

What similarity can there be between a faulty computer system being responsible for sub postmasters being accused of stealing and the investigation of benefits fraud? If the DWP are monitoring bank accounts it will be abundantly clear if income, expenditure and assets are not as stated by the claimant.

You may recall that there was a thread about this Bill a while ago. I said then, and I have said again, that I have read the draft Bill and the other legislation to which it refers. I don’t rely on commentary which suits my political stance - that is where untruths lie. As for calling people names, refer to your own words above ‘lying Tories’, and your description of my words as ‘snooty’.

The DWP already looks into your bank accounts! I am being investigated for fraud! By them. They are rude, agressive and it is very very stressful. I am sick with the way they’ve behaved.I’ve had to pay a solicitor - we have had the investigation my Pension Credit has been suspended.
They told me that I could reapply for it!
The accused fraud is because of interest on savings it has tipped over the amount allowed and I didn’t tell them! Definitely not knowingly !
The whole system is scandalous
The DWP is all powerful.
They are rude, agressive and I can’t tell you what it’s doing to me !
It will take a minimum of 6weeks before I hear about the result
Then maybe another 6weeks for the fine/penalty to be announced!
Still very stressful

I have been called 'paranoid' for saying so on here, but yes, I am concerned at the idea that people can scrutinise my bank account without a declared and valid reason. I don't care that it is currently unlikely that anyone would do so. The current rules can change very easily, as can the current political system. Allowing access to the accounts of people who are not suspected of anything is opening the door to what could be come an even bigger loss of privacy.

It's not about having 'nothing to hide' either. The Postmasters had nothing to hide. Why haven't we been told why they need to do this? We've seen that those accessing the Postmasters' accounts were able to make changes without their knowledge. What assurances do we have that this wouldn't happen to us?

If they want to know expenditure details for statistical purposes they can carry out a (voluntary and anonymised) research project and pay a representative sample of people to submit details of income and outgoings. Why should someone in a government department be able to see which magazines I subscribe to, where I buy my food (or where I buy my carpets or my knickers for that matter)? I can imagine that there will be statistics published suggesting that pensioners don't 'need' a SP, as X% of them spend money on bingo, or holidays, or Taste The Difference sausages.

I object strongly to this.

The sub postmasters’ accounts were accessible because they were on the PO’s Horizon system. Are you seriously suggesting that the DWP is going to access your bank’s IT system and change the details within your account?

Babamaman

The DWP already looks into your bank accounts! I am being investigated for fraud! By them. They are rude, agressive and it is very very stressful. I am sick with the way they’ve behaved.I’ve had to pay a solicitor - we have had the investigation my Pension Credit has been suspended.
They told me that I could reapply for it!
The accused fraud is because of interest on savings it has tipped over the amount allowed and I didn’t tell them! Definitely not knowingly !
The whole system is scandalous
The DWP is all powerful.
They are rude, agressive and I can’t tell you what it’s doing to me !
It will take a minimum of 6weeks before I hear about the result
Then maybe another 6weeks for the fine/penalty to be announced!
Still very stressful

The DWP already looks into your bank accounts.

They can only do this if there are suspicious circumstances that they become aware of or are brought to there attention. With the changes they will set up systems (who knows how good they will be) that track everything.

The system put into the Post Office was also intended to "catch" benefit fraud, and we have no idea how that worked yet.

I am so sorry this has happened to you Babamaman. It's almost as if they make the benefits systems so complex deliberately.

Why should either the Post Office or the DWP be outside the general law?

The government does include/has included many who have lied. Or are you now saying that is not true Germanshepherdsmum?

We know that some have been proved to have lied - but you weren’t referring only to those few.

It’s your responsibility to tell the DWP of any change in circumstances Babamaman. If you look at your bank statements regularly you will know that your declared savings have increased because of accrued interest.

No, if you lay down with dogs you get flees. The whole Party is tainted and the "bystander society", that has kept them in power must be complicit.

Sorry. Last post to Germanshepherdsmum.

I’m pleased to say that my dog doesn’t have ‘flees’ (sic). The whole Party is tainted in your opinion . What a sweeping statement. I’m exempted from this slur because you’ve said I’m not a bystander. But I have indeed kept them in power along with many other people .

I have always voted Conservative in GE’s and I haven’t got flees.

DaisyAnneRerurns who are you referring to as bystander society , those who vote Conservative or Conservative Party Donors?

Can I politely suggest you look it up, GrannyGravy.

DaisyAnneReturns

Can I politely suggest you look it up, GrannyGravy.

No, sorry you used the quote I would like to know your definition.

How does GG research what you intend by a statement you make?

Germanshepherdsmum

I’m pleased to say that my dog doesn’t have ‘flees’ (sic). The whole Party is tainted in your opinion . What a sweeping statement. I’m exempted from this slur because you’ve said I’m not a bystander. But I have indeed kept them in power along with many other people .

You're not a bystander, Germanshepherdsmum. As you have told us, you are a committed member of this extreme.

Bystanding is a way of surviving an extreme by going along with what people feel they need to do to fit in. They tell themselves it doesn't count; it's what they must do. And they could be right. As democracy is compromised, so is the freedom to say or do what you feel to be honest.

We are moving out of that bleak period of our history. My hope is that it is okay to speak out against this troubling law.

along with many other people

This really isn't about you Germanshepherdsmum, so please stop pretending it is. It's about a law, brought in by this government, enabled by its supporters.

There is benefit fraud and I expect the DWP to investigate. I doubt they will be trawling through everyone's bank accounts as they don't have enough staff to do that.
They will only investigate if they suspect someone is benefitting illegally.
The problems in the Post Office were caused by Fujitsu's faulty system.
I do think much more training is needed if powers are to be given to DWP.
The police are too short staffed to deal with every case of benefit fraud.

I am not a member of the Conservative Party DAR. I am a supporter. You may choose to see it as ‘extreme’. Not everyone agrees with that. I have not pretended that any of this is about me but you do like an opportunity to hurl an insult don’t you? And by the way the Bill is just that - not law.

Exactly, AGA.

AGAA4

There is benefit fraud and I expect the DWP to investigate. I doubt they will be trawling through everyone's bank accounts as they don't have enough staff to do that.
They will only investigate if they suspect someone is benefitting illegally.
The problems in the Post Office were caused by Fujitsu's faulty system.
I do think much more training is needed if powers are to be given to DWP.
The police are too short staffed to deal with every case of benefit fraud.

They won’t be ‘trawling’ exactly. The Bill requires all banks and building societies to provide, every four weeks, details of the financial transactions of anyone in receipt of state benefits, including pensions and non-means tested disability payments. .

The will then be analysed by AI, and anomalies flagged to DWP for investigation.

At present, the government say they won’t be asking for account details from those in receipt of non-means tested benefits, but if they never intend to, there is no reason to include them in the legislation.

It’s a massive invasion of privacy for those in receipt of benefits, and the proverbial hammer (in this case a very expensive one) to crack a nut.

If people have claimed their benefits honestly there is no need to worry. Those who have committed benefit fraud need to be found out and stopped.

The whole point is they won't need to go trawling through everyone's bank accounts AGAA4, they will get downloads of your information from the bank, and then process it with today's version of Horizon about which, there is a good chance they will have been told can do no wrong or they will not have enough people to cross-check.

Sorry Siope what you said.

Germanshepherdsmum

The sub postmasters’ accounts were accessible because they were on the PO’s Horizon system. Are you seriously suggesting that the DWP is going to access your bank’s IT system and change the details within your account?

I'm not seriously suggesting anything. I'm just saying that I am uneasy about 'officialdom' being given such carte blanche to access personal information.

What they can do already, what they are likely to do is, to me, either here nor there. It's what they could do that bothers me.